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	<title>Rupert&#039;s Blog &#187; Toronto</title>
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	<link>http://rupertward.cce.uk.net</link>
	<description>Reflections on Jesus, theology, the Bible and Church</description>
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		<title>Lakeland and Toronto &#8211; Part 3</title>
		<link>http://rupertward.cce.uk.net/2008/09/23/lakeland-and-toronto-part-3/</link>
		<comments>http://rupertward.cce.uk.net/2008/09/23/lakeland-and-toronto-part-3/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Sep 2008 10:28:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>rupert</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Charismatic]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[God TV]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[lakeland]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Todd Bentley]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Toronto]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rupertward.cce.uk.net/2008/09/23/lakeland-and-toronto-part-3/</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Following my last couple of posts (1 &#38; 2), reflecting on the Lakeland Outpouring, and trying to learn some lessons by contrasting to the Toronto &#34;blessing&#34;.&#160; This post I move on to the role of the media&#8230; &#160; Media Toronto, &#8230; <a href="http://rupertward.cce.uk.net/2008/09/23/lakeland-and-toronto-part-3/">Continue reading <span class="meta-nav">&#8594;</span></a>]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Following my last couple of posts (<a href="http://rupertward.cce.uk.net/2008/09/19/lakeland-and-toronto-part-2/" target="_blank">1</a> &amp; <a href="http://rupertward.cce.uk.net/2008/09/15/lakeland-and-toronto/" target="_blank">2</a>), reflecting on the Lakeland Outpouring, and trying to learn some lessons by contrasting to the Toronto &quot;blessing&quot;.&#160; This post I move on to the role of the media&#8230;</p>
<p>&#160;</p>
<p><strong><a href="http://rupertward.cce.uk.net/wp-content/uploads/2008/09/sign-post2.jpg"><img style="border-right: 0px; border-top: 0px; margin: 0px 20px 10px 0px; border-left: 0px; border-bottom: 0px" height="244" alt="SIGN-POST" src="http://rupertward.cce.uk.net/wp-content/uploads/2008/09/sign-post-thumb2.jpg" width="244" align="left" border="0" /></a> Media</strong></p>
<p>Toronto, in the early 90&#8242;s, was pre-internet, and in the UK at least, pre-Christian TV.&#160; News spread of something that God seemed to be doing by word of mouth, and eventually Christian magazines.&#160; There were no blogs to read of people&#8217;s experience or questions.&#160; It wasn&#8217;t screened nightly into our living rooms from day 1.&#160; I don&#8217;t think I heard about anything until probably around May time in 1994, and the first meeting with Randy Clark in Toronto was Jan 20th that year.&#160; Even then reports were sketchy &#8211; something about a meeting at Holy Trinity Brompton, people lying on the floor for ages, people &quot;drunk&quot; in the Spirit.&#160; During a week of mission in August in our church, in the morning prayer times, the Holy Spirit moved powerfully amongst us.&#160; This wasn&#8217;t transferred, but broke out spontaneously.</p>
<p>This time allowed people to process what they were hearing over time, assess without being told by one source what to think of it.&#160; It was much more organic.&#160; It gave time for the leaders in the church in Toronto to learn, to have a little theology for what was going on, to get a little more wisdom on how to deflect criticism, steer a middle path between emotionalism and allowing God to move.&#160; Even then there were excesses and mistakes.&#160; My experience of Toronto was still too focused around the manifestations: even though it was said that wasn&#8217;t the deal, when people were &quot;zapped in the Spirit&quot; it was still celebrated, betraying what people really thought.</p>
<p><a href="http://rupertward.cce.uk.net/wp-content/uploads/2008/09/todd-bentley-search.png"><img style="border-right: 0px; border-top: 0px; margin: 10px 0px 10px 20px; border-left: 0px; border-bottom: 0px" height="141" alt="todd bentley google search" src="http://rupertward.cce.uk.net/wp-content/uploads/2008/09/todd-bentley-search-thumb.png" width="309" align="right" border="0" /></a> Lakeland, on the other hand, was virtually instantaneous, screened live by God TV and on the internet.&#160; In my opinion, God TV have a lot to answer for, as they effectively became the ones who proclaimed this from the rooftops: this is God &#8211; jump in.&#160; It didn&#8217;t allow time for people, or for questions, or for process.&#160; They were forcing people to make a choice: are you for this or not?</p>
<p>I can&#8217;t imagine the pressures that suddenly hit Todd Bentley and his Fresh Fire ministry.&#160; In the matter of a few days, he was catapulted from a somewhat known itinerant preacher to global superstar in the Christian world.&#160; Just look at these charts.&#160; The first one shows Google searches on &quot;Todd Bentley&quot; over the last few years, and you can clearly see two clear spikes: one when Lakeland was growing in prominence, the other when news hit about his moral failure.&#160; They show that searches were 14 times the average over the last 5 years.</p>
<p><a href="http://rupertward.cce.uk.net/wp-content/uploads/2008/09/todd-bentley-technorati-chart.png"><img style="border-right: 0px; border-top: 0px; margin: 10px 15px 5px 0px; border-left: 0px; border-bottom: 0px" height="216" alt="todd bentley technorati chart" src="http://rupertward.cce.uk.net/wp-content/uploads/2008/09/todd-bentley-technorati-chart-thumb.png" width="274" align="left" border="0" /></a> This chart&#160; (on the left) shows the increase of blogs about Todd Bentley as recorded by Technorati.&#160; Again it is easy to see the huge spike in interest and attention in Todd.</p>
<p>In the end, the failing of Todd to live faithfully to his wife, has had a greater impact on the body of Christ due to the prominence he had &#8216;achieved&#8217; over the last few months.&#160; If Lakeland hadn&#8217;t happened, I doubt it would have registered a hit on Christian radar.</p>
<p>For that, I think that GodTV do have real responsibility.&#160; Not for Todd choices.&#160; But for the pressure that he was put under.&#160; For not allowing Lakeland to grow slowly or fizzle out.&#160; For promoting something, and then not taking responsibility for the leadership they brought to the worldwide body of Christ.</p>
<p>What would have happened if Lakeland hadn&#8217;t been broadcast on the internet and TV&#8217;s?&#160; Is it possible that some help could have been brought to Todd without such a public failure?&#160; Could some of the theology been sorted?&#160; Might there have been a greater discernment about what God was doing, and what was excess?</p>
<p>We will never know.&#160; All I know is that wouldn&#8217;t want to have been put in the place that Todd found himself.&#160; And if I found myself in the midst of a move of God, I wouldn&#8217;t be getting in contact with GodTV.&#160;&#160; Unless my flesh had its own way&#8230;</p>
<div class="wlWriterSmartContent" id="scid:0767317B-992E-4b12-91E0-4F059A8CECA8:0433f310-409d-4a85-a574-5ad6151b6c80" style="padding-right: 0px; display: inline; padding-left: 0px; float: none; padding-bottom: 0px; margin: 0px; padding-top: 0px">Technorati Tags: <a href="http://technorati.com/tags/Todd%20Bentley" rel="tag">Todd Bentley</a>,<a href="http://technorati.com/tags/Lakeland%20Outpouring" rel="tag">Lakeland Outpouring</a>,<a href="http://technorati.com/tags/Toronto%20Blessing" rel="tag">Toronto Blessing</a>,<a href="http://technorati.com/tags/God%20TV" rel="tag">God TV</a></div>
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		<slash:comments>10</slash:comments>
	
		<series:name><![CDATA[lakeland]]></series:name>
	</item>
		<item>
		<title>Lakeland and Toronto &#8211; Part 2</title>
		<link>http://rupertward.cce.uk.net/2008/09/19/lakeland-and-toronto-part-2/</link>
		<comments>http://rupertward.cce.uk.net/2008/09/19/lakeland-and-toronto-part-2/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Sep 2008 09:58:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>rupert</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Charismatic]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Dudley]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[lakeland]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Todd Bentley]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Toronto]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rupertward.cce.uk.net/2008/09/19/lakeland-and-toronto-part-2/</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I am exploring the differences between the Lakeland Outpouring and The Toronto Blessing.&#160; I am hoping that we can learn some lessons, hold on to some of the good things, and to avoid&#160; in the future some of mistakes that &#8230; <a href="http://rupertward.cce.uk.net/2008/09/19/lakeland-and-toronto-part-2/">Continue reading <span class="meta-nav">&#8594;</span></a>]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://rupertward.cce.uk.net/wp-content/uploads/2008/09/sign-post1.jpg"><img style="border-top-width: 0px; border-left-width: 0px; border-bottom-width: 0px; margin: 10px 10px 10px 15px; border-right-width: 0px" height="244" alt="SIGN-POST" src="http://rupertward.cce.uk.net/wp-content/uploads/2008/09/sign-post-thumb1.jpg" width="244" align="right" border="0" /></a> I am exploring the differences between the Lakeland Outpouring and The Toronto Blessing.&#160; I am hoping that we can learn some lessons, hold on to some of the good things, and to avoid&#160; in the future some of mistakes that have caused <a href="http://rupertward.cce.uk.net/2008/08/19/todd-bentley-lakeland-meetings-and-marriage/" target="_blank">such a mess</a> in the recent weeks.&#160; <a href="http://rupertward.cce.uk.net/2008/09/15/lakeland-and-toronto/" target="_blank">My first post will give more context</a>.&#160; So here we go:</p>
<p><strong>Wham, Bam or Rising Tide</strong></p>
<p>Todd Bentley&#8217;s trademark cry of &quot;<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lakeland_revival#Controversy" target="_blank">Bam</a>&quot; was the phrase of Lakeland.&#160; But it also probably symbolises Lakeland for me. Loud, quickly here, in our lives, on our screens, in our faces.&#160; Then suddenly gone, dropped by the TV schedulers, quicker than you can say &#8216;thank you ma&#8217;am&#8217;!&#160; <a href="http://www.qaya.org/blog/?p=519" target="_blank">From what I have heard</a>, in both Lakeland, and the UK hot-spot of Dudley, people were prayed for, many fell over, were allowed to stay on the floor for a few seconds, and then were hauled to their feet, so someone else could have their floor space.</p>
<p>Toronto on the other hand, actively encouraged people to stay on the floor.&#160; For the leaders of that movement, it was what the Holy Spirit did while you lying on the floor, soaking in His presence, that was more important.&#160; In some meetings, they even started with people lying down, bringing cushions to make themselves comfortable, to spend a couple of hours &quot;soaking&quot;.&#160; There were phrases such as &quot;marinating&quot; in the Spirit, an expectation that we could receive more, as we lingered.&#160; Although, I think there was sometimes too much made of the manifestations, there was an emphasis on the internal, a renovation and healing of the heart.</p>
<p>All of this could simply be stylistic differences, but I would suggest there is something more fundamental at work here.&#160; Toronto was a renewal, reviving the church, back to a love and intimacy with God.&#160; There was impartation and physical healing, but these were always secondary.&#160; Ezekiel 47, the rising river of God, was a key passage.&#160; The need for individuals to keep coming back to that river, to be refreshed and healed, enabled Toronto to have a longevity, that Lakeland hasn&#8217;t had.</p>
<p>And there is the rub.&#160; I am in this for the long haul.&#160; I am not interested in burning bright for a while, and then burning out.&#160; I want to run the whole race, not a 100m dash.&#160; There are moments, of course, where we powerfully encounter God.&#160; But they are in the context of a lifetime journey of walking with God.&#160; Character &amp; renovation of the heart don&#8217;t come in a few seconds on the floor, but as we live our lives with God; as we work and live with people who are different to us; as we learn to love and be loved.&#160; Wham, Bam might be exciting, but it is hardly ever sustained.</p>
<p><div class="wlWriterSmartContent" id="scid:0767317B-992E-4b12-91E0-4F059A8CECA8:030c7d15-eb03-4eb3-bbd9-307cacb2e603" style="padding-right: 0px; display: inline; padding-left: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; margin: 0px; padding-top: 0px">Technorati Tags: <a href="http://technorati.com/tags/Todd%20Bentley" rel="tag">Todd Bentley</a>,<a href="http://technorati.com/tags/Lakeland%20Outpouring" rel="tag">Lakeland Outpouring</a>,<a href="http://technorati.com/tags/Toronto%20Blessing" rel="tag">Toronto Blessing</a></div>
</p>
<p>Next time:</p>
<p><strong>Media</strong></p>
<p>Toronto, in the early 90&#8242;s, was pre-internet, and in the UK at least, pre-Christian TV&#8230;</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<slash:comments>10</slash:comments>
	
		<series:name><![CDATA[lakeland]]></series:name>
	</item>
		<item>
		<title>Lakeland and Toronto</title>
		<link>http://rupertward.cce.uk.net/2008/09/15/lakeland-and-toronto/</link>
		<comments>http://rupertward.cce.uk.net/2008/09/15/lakeland-and-toronto/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Sep 2008 23:55:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>rupert</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Charismatic]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Lakeland Outpouring]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Todd Bentley]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Toronto]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rupertward.cce.uk.net/2008/09/15/lakeland-and-toronto/</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[A few weeks after the sad news of Todd Bentley marital problems, I have been wanting to write some reflections on Lakeland, and compare some of the differences between &#34;The Lakeland Outpouring&#34; and &#34;The Toronto Blessing&#34;. There has been much &#8230; <a href="http://rupertward.cce.uk.net/2008/09/15/lakeland-and-toronto/">Continue reading <span class="meta-nav">&#8594;</span></a>]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://rupertward.cce.uk.net/wp-content/uploads/2008/09/sign-post.jpg"><img style="border-right: 0px; border-top: 0px; margin: 10px 20px 10px 0px; border-left: 0px; border-bottom: 0px" height="244" alt="SIGN-POST" src="http://rupertward.cce.uk.net/wp-content/uploads/2008/09/sign-post-thumb.jpg" width="244" align="left" border="0" /></a> A few weeks after the sad news of <a href="http://rupertward.cce.uk.net/2008/08/19/todd-bentley-lakeland-meetings-and-marriage/" target="_blank">Todd Bentley marital problems,</a> I have been wanting to write some reflections on Lakeland, and compare some of the differences between &quot;The Lakeland Outpouring&quot; and &quot;The Toronto Blessing&quot;.</p>
<p>There has been much written about Lakeland. In the UK there has been a lot of stuff said, much of it either uncritically positive or critically negative.&#160; There have been a few articles that I have read (and many I am sure I haven&#8217;t) that offer something a little more reflective and nuanced.&#160; Two reviews, from people that I respect are&#160; <a href="http://www.janga.biz/terryvirgoblog/?p=149" target="_blank">Terry Virgo&#8217;s review</a> and <a href="http://www.janga.biz/terryvirgoblog/?p=150" target="_blank">Part 2</a> (NFI) and <a href="http://www.24-7prayer.com/cm/content/888" target="_blank">Billy Kennedy&#8217;s thoughts</a> (New Community, Southampton).&#160; Another highly respected church leader, Paul Reid from CFC in Belfast, has weighed in recently with a more negative slant in a couple of posts <a href="http://www.cfc-net.org/2008/09/todd-bentley.html" target="_blank">here</a> and <a href="http://www.cfc-net.org/2008/09/todd-bentley-part-2.html" target="_blank">here</a>.&#160; One of the UK bloggers who has made the most sense is Peter Kirk, of <a href="http://www.qaya.org/blog/" target="_blank">Gentle Wisdom</a>.&#160; He has been <a href="http://www.qaya.org/blog/?p=519" target="_blank">pretty positive</a>, but <a href="http://www.qaya.org/blog/?p=543" target="_blank">thoughtfully so</a>, and his posts are <a href="http://www.qaya.org/blog/?p=652" target="_blank">really well researched</a>.&#160; In addition, Joel Edwards the then General Director of the Evangelical Alliance has some <a href="http://www.eauk.org/media/florida.cfm" target="_blank">helpful principles to evaluate any move of God</a>.</p>
<p>Many of the big names in the US charismatic scene have all made statements: <a href="http://www.qaya.org/blog/?p=652" target="_blank">Peter &amp; Doris Wagner</a> (as quoted on Gentle Wisdom), <a href="http://www.morningstarministries.org/Articles/1000036150/MorningStar_Ministries/Media/Special_Bulletins/2008/_12_The.aspx" target="_blank">Rick Joyner</a>, <a href="http://www.bjm.org/thoughts/update-what-do-you-think-about-todd-bentley-and-the-lakeland-revival.html" target="_blank">Bill Johnson</a>, <a href="http://www.tacf.org/tacforghome/Visitors/LakelandToddBentleyUpdate/tabid/761/Default.aspx" target="_blank">John Arnott</a>, &amp; <a href="http://harvestrockchurch.org/ebulletin/hrc_flash_news.php" target="_blank">Che Ahn</a>.&#160; I have linked before to Lee Grady&#8217;s (editor of Charisma) <a href="http://fireinmybones.com/index.php?col=081308~Life+After+Lakeland%3A+Sorting+Out+the+Confusion" target="_blank">response</a>.</p>
<p>When looking back at a positive event, it is easy to forget some of the negative aspects.&#160; However, as I recall Toronto I found it a predominantly positive experience.&#160; I know there were some problems (which I hope to come to and the end of the series), but through that &quot;move of the Spirit&quot; I had some profound encounters with God.&#160; Personal emotional healing, refreshing and a profound sense of calling with continues to today.&#160; I didn&#8217;t rush off to Toronto itself, but went there twice in 2001 &amp; 2003&#160; (the first visit in particular, came a particularly difficult time in my life, and was a life saver) but in the Summer &amp; Autumn of 1994 I was enthusiastically embracing the &quot;river&quot; that was flowing here in Edinburgh.</p>
<p>The Lakeland outpouring, on the other hand, I found much harder to evaluate.&#160; I didn&#8217;t have a personal experience of Lakeland, except what I saw on GodTV.&#160; It also seemed to divide Christian opinion even more than Toronto.&#160; It appeared that lots of people rushed to proclaim this was a significant move of God (or not) and a call to others to come out in favour or against it.&#160; I believe in a God who hates suffering, and loves to heal (while I acknowledge that He often (mostly?) doesn&#8217;t insulate or deliver us from suffering), but found myself unconvinced by much of what I saw.&#160; I didn&#8217;t think it was evil or bad, I just wasn&#8217;t convinced about all the hype surrounding it.</p>
<p>So what was the difference between the two?</p>
<p><strong>Wham, Bam or Rising Tide</strong></p>
<p>Bentley&#8217;s trademark cry of &quot;Bam&quot; was the phrase of Lakeland&#8230; </p>
<p>&#8230;and for the rest, you will have to wait for the next post&#8230;!</p>
<div class="wlWriterSmartContent" id="scid:0767317B-992E-4b12-91E0-4F059A8CECA8:4b8726d3-b28e-4c46-a429-365a6fe94597" style="padding-right: 0px; display: inline; padding-left: 0px; float: none; padding-bottom: 0px; margin: 0px; padding-top: 0px">Technorati Tags: <a href="http://technorati.com/tags/Todd%20Bentley" rel="tag">Todd Bentley</a>,<a href="http://technorati.com/tags/Lakeland%20Outpouring" rel="tag">Lakeland Outpouring</a>,<a href="http://technorati.com/tags/Toronto" rel="tag">Toronto</a>,<a href="http://technorati.com/tags/Rick%20Joyner" rel="tag">Rick Joyner</a>,<a href="http://technorati.com/tags/Bill%20Johnson" rel="tag">Bill Johnson</a>,<a href="http://technorati.com/tags/John%20Arnott" rel="tag">John Arnott</a>,<a href="http://technorati.com/tags/Che%20Ahn" rel="tag">Che Ahn</a>,<a href="http://technorati.com/tags/Joel%20Edwards" rel="tag">Joel Edwards</a>,<a href="http://technorati.com/tags/Billy%20Kennedy" rel="tag">Billy Kennedy</a>,<a href="http://technorati.com/tags/Terry%20Virgo" rel="tag">Terry Virgo</a>,<a href="http://technorati.com/tags/Paul%20Reid" rel="tag">Paul Reid</a></div>
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		<series:name><![CDATA[lakeland]]></series:name>
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