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	<title>Rupert&#039;s Blog &#187; Charismatic</title>
	<atom:link href="http://rupertward.cce.uk.net/category/church/charismatic/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://rupertward.cce.uk.net</link>
	<description>Reflections on Jesus, theology, the Bible and Church</description>
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		<title>Busy Days&#8230;</title>
		<link>http://rupertward.cce.uk.net/2008/10/07/busy-days/</link>
		<comments>http://rupertward.cce.uk.net/2008/10/07/busy-days/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Oct 2008 22:59:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>rupert</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Charismatic]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[God TV]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[lakeland]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rupertward.cce.uk.net/2008/10/07/busy-days/</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[It has been a busy week or so.&#160; So no blogging.&#160; One of the reasons for being busy last week was a &#34;vision day&#34; we had at church on Sunday.&#160; I will blog about that in a day or two &#8230; <a href="http://rupertward.cce.uk.net/2008/10/07/busy-days/">Continue reading <span class="meta-nav">&#8594;</span></a>]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It has been a busy week or so.&#160; So no blogging.&#160; One of the reasons for being busy last week was a &quot;vision day&quot; we had at church on Sunday.&#160; I will blog about that in a day or two (hopefully!).</p>
<p>I intend to continue with my series on <a href="http://rupertward.cce.uk.net/series/lakeland/">Lakeland and Toronto</a>.&#160; But just for now I link to <a href="http://www.qaya.org/blog/?p=716">an interesting post by Peter Kirk, at Gentle Wisdom</a>, with Rory &amp; Wendy&#8217;s (from God TV) response to Lakeland.&#160; Here is a little of what they said:</p>
<blockquote><p>we believe that the Lord instructed us to broadcast the Outpouring services at Lakeland with Todd Bentley.</p>
<p>It was not a mistake.     <br />It was not by mistake.      <br />We believe it was a clear instruction from the Lord.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>I can&#8217;t comment on whether the Lord told them or not &#8211; maybe he did.&#160; But if He did, was it also his will to hype it so much?&#160;&#160; Would it also not be His will for them to learn from the episode and perhaps do things differently next time?&#160; But unfortunately no reflection, in their statement, about what they have learnt from the episode.&#160; Only that Todd was not fully surrendered to the Lord.&#160; Easy to the fault in others.&#160; Less easy to see in ourselves.</p>
<p>I am glad they have said something.&#160; I wish they had said more.&#160; And so I still stand by what I said in <a href="http://rupertward.cce.uk.net/2008/09/23/lakeland-and-toronto-part-3/">my previous post</a>.</p>
<p>&#160;</p>
<div class="wlWriterSmartContent" id="scid:0767317B-992E-4b12-91E0-4F059A8CECA8:70cb6e27-226b-4a89-b69d-ee393b1b33e8" style="padding-right: 0px; display: inline; padding-left: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; margin: 0px; padding-top: 0px">Technorati Tags: <a href="http://technorati.com/tags/Lakeland%20Outpouring" rel="tag">Lakeland Outpouring</a>,<a href="http://technorati.com/tags/God%20TV" rel="tag">God TV</a></div>
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		<slash:comments>8</slash:comments>
		</item>
		<item>
		<title>Lakeland and Toronto &#8211; Part 3</title>
		<link>http://rupertward.cce.uk.net/2008/09/23/lakeland-and-toronto-part-3/</link>
		<comments>http://rupertward.cce.uk.net/2008/09/23/lakeland-and-toronto-part-3/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Sep 2008 10:28:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>rupert</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Charismatic]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[God TV]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[lakeland]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Todd Bentley]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Toronto]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rupertward.cce.uk.net/2008/09/23/lakeland-and-toronto-part-3/</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Following my last couple of posts (1 &#38; 2), reflecting on the Lakeland Outpouring, and trying to learn some lessons by contrasting to the Toronto &#34;blessing&#34;.&#160; This post I move on to the role of the media&#8230; &#160; Media Toronto, &#8230; <a href="http://rupertward.cce.uk.net/2008/09/23/lakeland-and-toronto-part-3/">Continue reading <span class="meta-nav">&#8594;</span></a>]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Following my last couple of posts (<a href="http://rupertward.cce.uk.net/2008/09/19/lakeland-and-toronto-part-2/" target="_blank">1</a> &amp; <a href="http://rupertward.cce.uk.net/2008/09/15/lakeland-and-toronto/" target="_blank">2</a>), reflecting on the Lakeland Outpouring, and trying to learn some lessons by contrasting to the Toronto &quot;blessing&quot;.&#160; This post I move on to the role of the media&#8230;</p>
<p>&#160;</p>
<p><strong><a href="http://rupertward.cce.uk.net/wp-content/uploads/2008/09/sign-post2.jpg"><img style="border-right: 0px; border-top: 0px; margin: 0px 20px 10px 0px; border-left: 0px; border-bottom: 0px" height="244" alt="SIGN-POST" src="http://rupertward.cce.uk.net/wp-content/uploads/2008/09/sign-post-thumb2.jpg" width="244" align="left" border="0" /></a> Media</strong></p>
<p>Toronto, in the early 90&#8242;s, was pre-internet, and in the UK at least, pre-Christian TV.&#160; News spread of something that God seemed to be doing by word of mouth, and eventually Christian magazines.&#160; There were no blogs to read of people&#8217;s experience or questions.&#160; It wasn&#8217;t screened nightly into our living rooms from day 1.&#160; I don&#8217;t think I heard about anything until probably around May time in 1994, and the first meeting with Randy Clark in Toronto was Jan 20th that year.&#160; Even then reports were sketchy &#8211; something about a meeting at Holy Trinity Brompton, people lying on the floor for ages, people &quot;drunk&quot; in the Spirit.&#160; During a week of mission in August in our church, in the morning prayer times, the Holy Spirit moved powerfully amongst us.&#160; This wasn&#8217;t transferred, but broke out spontaneously.</p>
<p>This time allowed people to process what they were hearing over time, assess without being told by one source what to think of it.&#160; It was much more organic.&#160; It gave time for the leaders in the church in Toronto to learn, to have a little theology for what was going on, to get a little more wisdom on how to deflect criticism, steer a middle path between emotionalism and allowing God to move.&#160; Even then there were excesses and mistakes.&#160; My experience of Toronto was still too focused around the manifestations: even though it was said that wasn&#8217;t the deal, when people were &quot;zapped in the Spirit&quot; it was still celebrated, betraying what people really thought.</p>
<p><a href="http://rupertward.cce.uk.net/wp-content/uploads/2008/09/todd-bentley-search.png"><img style="border-right: 0px; border-top: 0px; margin: 10px 0px 10px 20px; border-left: 0px; border-bottom: 0px" height="141" alt="todd bentley google search" src="http://rupertward.cce.uk.net/wp-content/uploads/2008/09/todd-bentley-search-thumb.png" width="309" align="right" border="0" /></a> Lakeland, on the other hand, was virtually instantaneous, screened live by God TV and on the internet.&#160; In my opinion, God TV have a lot to answer for, as they effectively became the ones who proclaimed this from the rooftops: this is God &#8211; jump in.&#160; It didn&#8217;t allow time for people, or for questions, or for process.&#160; They were forcing people to make a choice: are you for this or not?</p>
<p>I can&#8217;t imagine the pressures that suddenly hit Todd Bentley and his Fresh Fire ministry.&#160; In the matter of a few days, he was catapulted from a somewhat known itinerant preacher to global superstar in the Christian world.&#160; Just look at these charts.&#160; The first one shows Google searches on &quot;Todd Bentley&quot; over the last few years, and you can clearly see two clear spikes: one when Lakeland was growing in prominence, the other when news hit about his moral failure.&#160; They show that searches were 14 times the average over the last 5 years.</p>
<p><a href="http://rupertward.cce.uk.net/wp-content/uploads/2008/09/todd-bentley-technorati-chart.png"><img style="border-right: 0px; border-top: 0px; margin: 10px 15px 5px 0px; border-left: 0px; border-bottom: 0px" height="216" alt="todd bentley technorati chart" src="http://rupertward.cce.uk.net/wp-content/uploads/2008/09/todd-bentley-technorati-chart-thumb.png" width="274" align="left" border="0" /></a> This chart&#160; (on the left) shows the increase of blogs about Todd Bentley as recorded by Technorati.&#160; Again it is easy to see the huge spike in interest and attention in Todd.</p>
<p>In the end, the failing of Todd to live faithfully to his wife, has had a greater impact on the body of Christ due to the prominence he had &#8216;achieved&#8217; over the last few months.&#160; If Lakeland hadn&#8217;t happened, I doubt it would have registered a hit on Christian radar.</p>
<p>For that, I think that GodTV do have real responsibility.&#160; Not for Todd choices.&#160; But for the pressure that he was put under.&#160; For not allowing Lakeland to grow slowly or fizzle out.&#160; For promoting something, and then not taking responsibility for the leadership they brought to the worldwide body of Christ.</p>
<p>What would have happened if Lakeland hadn&#8217;t been broadcast on the internet and TV&#8217;s?&#160; Is it possible that some help could have been brought to Todd without such a public failure?&#160; Could some of the theology been sorted?&#160; Might there have been a greater discernment about what God was doing, and what was excess?</p>
<p>We will never know.&#160; All I know is that wouldn&#8217;t want to have been put in the place that Todd found himself.&#160; And if I found myself in the midst of a move of God, I wouldn&#8217;t be getting in contact with GodTV.&#160;&#160; Unless my flesh had its own way&#8230;</p>
<div class="wlWriterSmartContent" id="scid:0767317B-992E-4b12-91E0-4F059A8CECA8:0433f310-409d-4a85-a574-5ad6151b6c80" style="padding-right: 0px; display: inline; padding-left: 0px; float: none; padding-bottom: 0px; margin: 0px; padding-top: 0px">Technorati Tags: <a href="http://technorati.com/tags/Todd%20Bentley" rel="tag">Todd Bentley</a>,<a href="http://technorati.com/tags/Lakeland%20Outpouring" rel="tag">Lakeland Outpouring</a>,<a href="http://technorati.com/tags/Toronto%20Blessing" rel="tag">Toronto Blessing</a>,<a href="http://technorati.com/tags/God%20TV" rel="tag">God TV</a></div>
]]></content:encoded>
			<wfw:commentRss>http://rupertward.cce.uk.net/2008/09/23/lakeland-and-toronto-part-3/feed/</wfw:commentRss>
		<slash:comments>10</slash:comments>
	
		<series:name><![CDATA[lakeland]]></series:name>
	</item>
		<item>
		<title>Lakeland and Toronto &#8211; Part 2</title>
		<link>http://rupertward.cce.uk.net/2008/09/19/lakeland-and-toronto-part-2/</link>
		<comments>http://rupertward.cce.uk.net/2008/09/19/lakeland-and-toronto-part-2/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Sep 2008 09:58:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>rupert</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Charismatic]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Dudley]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[lakeland]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Todd Bentley]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Toronto]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rupertward.cce.uk.net/2008/09/19/lakeland-and-toronto-part-2/</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I am exploring the differences between the Lakeland Outpouring and The Toronto Blessing.&#160; I am hoping that we can learn some lessons, hold on to some of the good things, and to avoid&#160; in the future some of mistakes that &#8230; <a href="http://rupertward.cce.uk.net/2008/09/19/lakeland-and-toronto-part-2/">Continue reading <span class="meta-nav">&#8594;</span></a>]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://rupertward.cce.uk.net/wp-content/uploads/2008/09/sign-post1.jpg"><img style="border-top-width: 0px; border-left-width: 0px; border-bottom-width: 0px; margin: 10px 10px 10px 15px; border-right-width: 0px" height="244" alt="SIGN-POST" src="http://rupertward.cce.uk.net/wp-content/uploads/2008/09/sign-post-thumb1.jpg" width="244" align="right" border="0" /></a> I am exploring the differences between the Lakeland Outpouring and The Toronto Blessing.&#160; I am hoping that we can learn some lessons, hold on to some of the good things, and to avoid&#160; in the future some of mistakes that have caused <a href="http://rupertward.cce.uk.net/2008/08/19/todd-bentley-lakeland-meetings-and-marriage/" target="_blank">such a mess</a> in the recent weeks.&#160; <a href="http://rupertward.cce.uk.net/2008/09/15/lakeland-and-toronto/" target="_blank">My first post will give more context</a>.&#160; So here we go:</p>
<p><strong>Wham, Bam or Rising Tide</strong></p>
<p>Todd Bentley&#8217;s trademark cry of &quot;<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lakeland_revival#Controversy" target="_blank">Bam</a>&quot; was the phrase of Lakeland.&#160; But it also probably symbolises Lakeland for me. Loud, quickly here, in our lives, on our screens, in our faces.&#160; Then suddenly gone, dropped by the TV schedulers, quicker than you can say &#8216;thank you ma&#8217;am&#8217;!&#160; <a href="http://www.qaya.org/blog/?p=519" target="_blank">From what I have heard</a>, in both Lakeland, and the UK hot-spot of Dudley, people were prayed for, many fell over, were allowed to stay on the floor for a few seconds, and then were hauled to their feet, so someone else could have their floor space.</p>
<p>Toronto on the other hand, actively encouraged people to stay on the floor.&#160; For the leaders of that movement, it was what the Holy Spirit did while you lying on the floor, soaking in His presence, that was more important.&#160; In some meetings, they even started with people lying down, bringing cushions to make themselves comfortable, to spend a couple of hours &quot;soaking&quot;.&#160; There were phrases such as &quot;marinating&quot; in the Spirit, an expectation that we could receive more, as we lingered.&#160; Although, I think there was sometimes too much made of the manifestations, there was an emphasis on the internal, a renovation and healing of the heart.</p>
<p>All of this could simply be stylistic differences, but I would suggest there is something more fundamental at work here.&#160; Toronto was a renewal, reviving the church, back to a love and intimacy with God.&#160; There was impartation and physical healing, but these were always secondary.&#160; Ezekiel 47, the rising river of God, was a key passage.&#160; The need for individuals to keep coming back to that river, to be refreshed and healed, enabled Toronto to have a longevity, that Lakeland hasn&#8217;t had.</p>
<p>And there is the rub.&#160; I am in this for the long haul.&#160; I am not interested in burning bright for a while, and then burning out.&#160; I want to run the whole race, not a 100m dash.&#160; There are moments, of course, where we powerfully encounter God.&#160; But they are in the context of a lifetime journey of walking with God.&#160; Character &amp; renovation of the heart don&#8217;t come in a few seconds on the floor, but as we live our lives with God; as we work and live with people who are different to us; as we learn to love and be loved.&#160; Wham, Bam might be exciting, but it is hardly ever sustained.</p>
<p><div class="wlWriterSmartContent" id="scid:0767317B-992E-4b12-91E0-4F059A8CECA8:030c7d15-eb03-4eb3-bbd9-307cacb2e603" style="padding-right: 0px; display: inline; padding-left: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; margin: 0px; padding-top: 0px">Technorati Tags: <a href="http://technorati.com/tags/Todd%20Bentley" rel="tag">Todd Bentley</a>,<a href="http://technorati.com/tags/Lakeland%20Outpouring" rel="tag">Lakeland Outpouring</a>,<a href="http://technorati.com/tags/Toronto%20Blessing" rel="tag">Toronto Blessing</a></div>
</p>
<p>Next time:</p>
<p><strong>Media</strong></p>
<p>Toronto, in the early 90&#8242;s, was pre-internet, and in the UK at least, pre-Christian TV&#8230;</p>
]]></content:encoded>
			<wfw:commentRss>http://rupertward.cce.uk.net/2008/09/19/lakeland-and-toronto-part-2/feed/</wfw:commentRss>
		<slash:comments>10</slash:comments>
	
		<series:name><![CDATA[lakeland]]></series:name>
	</item>
		<item>
		<title>Praying for Revival&#8230;</title>
		<link>http://rupertward.cce.uk.net/2008/09/17/praying-for-revival/</link>
		<comments>http://rupertward.cce.uk.net/2008/09/17/praying-for-revival/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Sep 2008 00:44:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>rupert</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Charismatic]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Church]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[prayer]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[revival]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[signs & wonders]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rupertward.cce.uk.net/2008/09/17/praying-for-revival/</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[This is from Mr. David, from our congregation&#8230; Some people pray for revival and imagine that &#8216;signs and wonders&#8217; will declare that when it happens, but I was rolling around the thought that maybe we are part of a revival &#8230; <a href="http://rupertward.cce.uk.net/2008/09/17/praying-for-revival/">Continue reading <span class="meta-nav">&#8594;</span></a>]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://rupertward.cce.uk.net/wp-content/uploads/2008/09/revival.jpg"><img style="border-right: 0px; border-top: 0px; margin: 0px 0px 0px 15px; border-left: 0px; border-bottom: 0px" height="184" alt="revival" src="http://rupertward.cce.uk.net/wp-content/uploads/2008/09/revival-thumb.jpg" width="244" align="right" border="0" /></a> This is from <a href="http://misterdavid.typepad.com/these_are_the_days_of_mir/2008/09/never-cease-processing.html" target="_blank">Mr. David</a>, from our congregation&#8230;</p>
<blockquote><p>Some people pray for revival and imagine that &#8216;signs and wonders&#8217; will declare that when it happens, but I was rolling around the thought that maybe we are part of a revival right now &#8211; right as we speak &#8211; and one that is all the better for not being particularly visible.&#160; I mean, is 1100 individual prayer rooms in Brasil last year not a &#8216;wonder&#8217;?&#160; What about the dozens of new &#8216;academies&#8217; being opened by Oasis Trust, Emmanuel Schools Foundation, the Anglican Church etc. etc.?&#160; Or Orthodox, Catholics &amp; Protestants all working together as part of Alpha &#8211; is that a &#8216;sign&#8217;?&#160; Maybe I&#8217;m right, maybe I&#8217;m wrong, but I am not praying for a revival where people &#8216;go all wobbly&#8217; in the streets (although I don&#8217;t mind that either).&#160; Something a bit more reformatory, creative and redemptive is where my heart is at.&#160; And I think we are already beginning to see it.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>I love it, David.&#160; I would love to see more people thorough transformed by an encounter with God, the good news transforming people&#8217;s lives.&#160; But I think that is too small a vision.&#160; I really want to see society transformed.&#160; Not looking for much then eh?</p>
<p><strong>What do you want to see?&#160; What do you pray for?</strong></p>
<p>&#160;</p>
<div class="wlWriterSmartContent" id="scid:0767317B-992E-4b12-91E0-4F059A8CECA8:f587b202-0afd-4871-91dd-1a1f954828f3" style="padding-right: 0px; display: inline; padding-left: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; margin: 0px; padding-top: 0px">Technorati Tags: <a href="http://technorati.com/tags/Prayer%20for%20Revival" rel="tag">Prayer for Revival</a></div>
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		<slash:comments>2</slash:comments>
		</item>
		<item>
		<title>Lakeland and Toronto</title>
		<link>http://rupertward.cce.uk.net/2008/09/15/lakeland-and-toronto/</link>
		<comments>http://rupertward.cce.uk.net/2008/09/15/lakeland-and-toronto/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Sep 2008 23:55:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>rupert</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Charismatic]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Lakeland Outpouring]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Todd Bentley]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Toronto]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rupertward.cce.uk.net/2008/09/15/lakeland-and-toronto/</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[A few weeks after the sad news of Todd Bentley marital problems, I have been wanting to write some reflections on Lakeland, and compare some of the differences between &#34;The Lakeland Outpouring&#34; and &#34;The Toronto Blessing&#34;. There has been much &#8230; <a href="http://rupertward.cce.uk.net/2008/09/15/lakeland-and-toronto/">Continue reading <span class="meta-nav">&#8594;</span></a>]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://rupertward.cce.uk.net/wp-content/uploads/2008/09/sign-post.jpg"><img style="border-right: 0px; border-top: 0px; margin: 10px 20px 10px 0px; border-left: 0px; border-bottom: 0px" height="244" alt="SIGN-POST" src="http://rupertward.cce.uk.net/wp-content/uploads/2008/09/sign-post-thumb.jpg" width="244" align="left" border="0" /></a> A few weeks after the sad news of <a href="http://rupertward.cce.uk.net/2008/08/19/todd-bentley-lakeland-meetings-and-marriage/" target="_blank">Todd Bentley marital problems,</a> I have been wanting to write some reflections on Lakeland, and compare some of the differences between &quot;The Lakeland Outpouring&quot; and &quot;The Toronto Blessing&quot;.</p>
<p>There has been much written about Lakeland. In the UK there has been a lot of stuff said, much of it either uncritically positive or critically negative.&#160; There have been a few articles that I have read (and many I am sure I haven&#8217;t) that offer something a little more reflective and nuanced.&#160; Two reviews, from people that I respect are&#160; <a href="http://www.janga.biz/terryvirgoblog/?p=149" target="_blank">Terry Virgo&#8217;s review</a> and <a href="http://www.janga.biz/terryvirgoblog/?p=150" target="_blank">Part 2</a> (NFI) and <a href="http://www.24-7prayer.com/cm/content/888" target="_blank">Billy Kennedy&#8217;s thoughts</a> (New Community, Southampton).&#160; Another highly respected church leader, Paul Reid from CFC in Belfast, has weighed in recently with a more negative slant in a couple of posts <a href="http://www.cfc-net.org/2008/09/todd-bentley.html" target="_blank">here</a> and <a href="http://www.cfc-net.org/2008/09/todd-bentley-part-2.html" target="_blank">here</a>.&#160; One of the UK bloggers who has made the most sense is Peter Kirk, of <a href="http://www.qaya.org/blog/" target="_blank">Gentle Wisdom</a>.&#160; He has been <a href="http://www.qaya.org/blog/?p=519" target="_blank">pretty positive</a>, but <a href="http://www.qaya.org/blog/?p=543" target="_blank">thoughtfully so</a>, and his posts are <a href="http://www.qaya.org/blog/?p=652" target="_blank">really well researched</a>.&#160; In addition, Joel Edwards the then General Director of the Evangelical Alliance has some <a href="http://www.eauk.org/media/florida.cfm" target="_blank">helpful principles to evaluate any move of God</a>.</p>
<p>Many of the big names in the US charismatic scene have all made statements: <a href="http://www.qaya.org/blog/?p=652" target="_blank">Peter &amp; Doris Wagner</a> (as quoted on Gentle Wisdom), <a href="http://www.morningstarministries.org/Articles/1000036150/MorningStar_Ministries/Media/Special_Bulletins/2008/_12_The.aspx" target="_blank">Rick Joyner</a>, <a href="http://www.bjm.org/thoughts/update-what-do-you-think-about-todd-bentley-and-the-lakeland-revival.html" target="_blank">Bill Johnson</a>, <a href="http://www.tacf.org/tacforghome/Visitors/LakelandToddBentleyUpdate/tabid/761/Default.aspx" target="_blank">John Arnott</a>, &amp; <a href="http://harvestrockchurch.org/ebulletin/hrc_flash_news.php" target="_blank">Che Ahn</a>.&#160; I have linked before to Lee Grady&#8217;s (editor of Charisma) <a href="http://fireinmybones.com/index.php?col=081308~Life+After+Lakeland%3A+Sorting+Out+the+Confusion" target="_blank">response</a>.</p>
<p>When looking back at a positive event, it is easy to forget some of the negative aspects.&#160; However, as I recall Toronto I found it a predominantly positive experience.&#160; I know there were some problems (which I hope to come to and the end of the series), but through that &quot;move of the Spirit&quot; I had some profound encounters with God.&#160; Personal emotional healing, refreshing and a profound sense of calling with continues to today.&#160; I didn&#8217;t rush off to Toronto itself, but went there twice in 2001 &amp; 2003&#160; (the first visit in particular, came a particularly difficult time in my life, and was a life saver) but in the Summer &amp; Autumn of 1994 I was enthusiastically embracing the &quot;river&quot; that was flowing here in Edinburgh.</p>
<p>The Lakeland outpouring, on the other hand, I found much harder to evaluate.&#160; I didn&#8217;t have a personal experience of Lakeland, except what I saw on GodTV.&#160; It also seemed to divide Christian opinion even more than Toronto.&#160; It appeared that lots of people rushed to proclaim this was a significant move of God (or not) and a call to others to come out in favour or against it.&#160; I believe in a God who hates suffering, and loves to heal (while I acknowledge that He often (mostly?) doesn&#8217;t insulate or deliver us from suffering), but found myself unconvinced by much of what I saw.&#160; I didn&#8217;t think it was evil or bad, I just wasn&#8217;t convinced about all the hype surrounding it.</p>
<p>So what was the difference between the two?</p>
<p><strong>Wham, Bam or Rising Tide</strong></p>
<p>Bentley&#8217;s trademark cry of &quot;Bam&quot; was the phrase of Lakeland&#8230; </p>
<p>&#8230;and for the rest, you will have to wait for the next post&#8230;!</p>
<div class="wlWriterSmartContent" id="scid:0767317B-992E-4b12-91E0-4F059A8CECA8:4b8726d3-b28e-4c46-a429-365a6fe94597" style="padding-right: 0px; display: inline; padding-left: 0px; float: none; padding-bottom: 0px; margin: 0px; padding-top: 0px">Technorati Tags: <a href="http://technorati.com/tags/Todd%20Bentley" rel="tag">Todd Bentley</a>,<a href="http://technorati.com/tags/Lakeland%20Outpouring" rel="tag">Lakeland Outpouring</a>,<a href="http://technorati.com/tags/Toronto" rel="tag">Toronto</a>,<a href="http://technorati.com/tags/Rick%20Joyner" rel="tag">Rick Joyner</a>,<a href="http://technorati.com/tags/Bill%20Johnson" rel="tag">Bill Johnson</a>,<a href="http://technorati.com/tags/John%20Arnott" rel="tag">John Arnott</a>,<a href="http://technorati.com/tags/Che%20Ahn" rel="tag">Che Ahn</a>,<a href="http://technorati.com/tags/Joel%20Edwards" rel="tag">Joel Edwards</a>,<a href="http://technorati.com/tags/Billy%20Kennedy" rel="tag">Billy Kennedy</a>,<a href="http://technorati.com/tags/Terry%20Virgo" rel="tag">Terry Virgo</a>,<a href="http://technorati.com/tags/Paul%20Reid" rel="tag">Paul Reid</a></div>
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		<series:name><![CDATA[lakeland]]></series:name>
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		<title>Todd Bentley, Lakeland, meetings and marriage</title>
		<link>http://rupertward.cce.uk.net/2008/08/19/todd-bentley-lakeland-meetings-and-marriage/</link>
		<comments>http://rupertward.cce.uk.net/2008/08/19/todd-bentley-lakeland-meetings-and-marriage/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Aug 2008 13:06:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>rupert</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Charismatic]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Church]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[lakeland]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[marriage]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[revival]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Todd Bentley]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rupertward.cce.uk.net/?p=342</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I have been sitting on this post for a few days, not wanting to add fuel to the fire.&#160; However, what has happened in Lakeland has been played out so publicly with GodTV&#8217;s involvement, which unfortunately means that as the &#8230; <a href="http://rupertward.cce.uk.net/2008/08/19/todd-bentley-lakeland-meetings-and-marriage/">Continue reading <span class="meta-nav">&#8594;</span></a>]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have been sitting on this post for a few days, not wanting to add fuel to the fire.&#160; However, what has happened in <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lakeland_revival" target="_blank">Lakeland</a> has been played out so publicly with GodTV&#8217;s involvement, which unfortunately means that as the wheels come off, it happens publicly too.&#160; It is all available on the internet, and there is a lot of stuff that is a lot less generous that what is below:</p>
<p><a href="http://rupertward.cce.uk.net/wp-content/uploads/2008/08/todd-bentley.jpg"><img style="border-right: 0px; border-top: 0px; margin: 0px 20px 0px 0px; border-left: 0px; border-bottom: 0px" height="244" alt="todd_bentley" src="http://rupertward.cce.uk.net/wp-content/uploads/2008/08/todd-bentley-thumb.jpg" width="163" align="left" border="0" /></a> I had been thinking of writing some reflections on the &quot;Lakeland Outpouring&quot; following <a href="http://rupertward.cce.uk.net/2008/08/01/lakeland-revival/" target="_blank">this rather humorous link last week</a>, but sadly it has been announced last week that Todd Bentley and his wife are going through a difficult time in his marriage, and are living apart at present.&#160; Apparently he has formed an &quot;<em>inappropriate</em> <em>emotional relationship</em>&quot; with a female member of his staff, according to <a href="http://www.freshfire.ca/" target="_blank">his ministry website</a>.</p>
<p>I wasn&#8217;t a huge fan.&#160; It wasn&#8217;t the clothes.&#160; It wasn&#8217;t the tattoos, nor his jewellery. I didn&#8217;t really like the style: the shouting, and Pentecostal style. The &quot;Bamming&quot;.&#160; What I perceived as hype and sometimes manipulation.&#160; I was trying to test and weigh, and hold on to the good, but found it hard to do.&#160; There were one of two amazing stories of healing that I heard, from people I know (or know of) and trust, that were challenging and I felt God provoking me.&#160; Not to pursue the &quot;Lakeland Outpouring&quot;, but to seek God and to seek Him for the in-breaking of the Kingdom.&#160; But concerning the Lakeland &quot;revival&quot;, I mostly took a &quot;Gamaliel&quot; <a href="http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=act%205:33-40&amp;version=31" target="_blank">approach</a> &#8211; &quot;lets see what comes of this&quot;.</p>
<p>And tragically, a potential breakdown of a marriage and some kind of inappropriate behaviour is what comes of it.&#160; But lets not throw stones at Bentley or his wife.&#160; They are the victims in this.&#160; Willing, co-conspiring victims maybe.&#160; But victims none-the-less.</p>
<p>Victims of the hype of the church; the tendency of the Body of Christ to idolise human beings.&#160; The longing for God to move, which tragically means the Church lurches from one thing to the next, looking for the next big thing that God is doing.&#160; I applaud the hunger, but not always the response to that hunger.</p>
<p>Although I suspect the seeds of this situation were sown in their marriage long before April this year, the pressure of nightly meetings, the criticism and scrutiny of the world (both Christian and non-Christian) and the internal battle form being in that kind of prominence and position that undoubtedly would have been raging within Bentley, must have stretched his family to breaking point.&#160; I wonder how many marriages would survive?</p>
<p>I wouldn&#8217;t want to test mine in that cauldron of pressure and public glare.&#160; My stones are firmly being left on the ground.</p>
<p>So tonight, as I write, fan or not, I feel God&#8217;s compassion towards Bentley, his family, and no-doubt the many people who will be disillusioned and hurt by another prominent failure of a Christian leader.&#160; I feel God&#8217;s sadness that this has happened at all; that it was all so avoidable.&#160; Not because Bentley didn&#8217;t have the right safeguards, or accountability.&#160; But because the church doesn&#8217;t have to put that kind of pressure on people, to chase after the next big thing in the way we do, to set people up on pedestals that they can only fall from.&#160; </p>
<div class="wlWriterSmartContent" id="scid:0767317B-992E-4b12-91E0-4F059A8CECA8:e7c87f9f-ad17-42a2-9921-446e8e3caf73" style="padding-right: 0px; display: inline; padding-left: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; margin: 0px; padding-top: 0px">Technorati Tags: <a href="http://technorati.com/tags/Todd%20Bentley" rel="tag">Todd Bentley</a>,<a href="http://technorati.com/tags/Lakeland" rel="tag">Lakeland</a>,<a href="http://technorati.com/tags/revival" rel="tag">revival</a>,<a href="http://technorati.com/tags/marriage" rel="tag">marriage</a></div>
<p><strong>For Further Information:</strong></p>
<p>There is an interesting piece <a href="http://fireinmybones.com/index.php?col=081308~Life+After+Lakeland%3A+Sorting+Out+the+Confusion" target="_blank">here</a>, from the editor of Charisma magazine &#8211; slightly negative perhaps, but actually has a lot of really good questions.&#160; And for a UK perspective, from someone who has been very positive about the outpouring, see <a href="http://www.qaya.org/blog/?p=628" target="_blank">here</a> and <a href="http://www.qaya.org/blog/?p=623" target="_blank">here</a>. Click on &quot;more&quot; for the full statement by Fresh Fire Ministries on the current situation&#8230;</p>
<p> <span id="more-342"></span></p>
<p><strong>From the Board of Directors</strong></p>
<p>We wish to thank all of our friends and partners for the overwhelming flood of support and compassion we have received as a ministry on behalf of Todd and Shonnah Bentley. The many phone calls and emails of concern from people who genuinely love the Bentleys and Fresh Fire Ministries have been a great encouragement to all of us here during these past few days. In particular, the rallying of support and prayer for Todd and Shonnah by prominent leaders within the Body of Christ has been a beautiful indicator of the maturity and grace the Lord is bringing to his Bride. </p>
<p>We wish to acknowledge, however, that since our last statement from the Fresh Fire Board of Directors, we have discovered new information revealing that Todd Bentley has entered into an unhealthy relationship on an emotional level with a female member of his staff. In light of this new information and in consultation with his leaders and advisors, Todd Bentley has agreed to step down from his position on the Board of Directors and to refrain from all public ministry for a season to receive counsel in his personal life. </p>
<p>On behalf of the Fresh Fire leadership and the Board of Directors we wish to apologize to our friends and partners and to the larger body of Christ and to ask for your forgiveness. We are truly sorry for the pain many of you must feel and so regret that in the midst of great revival, the enemy has found a way into our camp. To those who have stood by us, we wish to thank you for what in many cases has been years of support. Thank you for your financial giving towards the vision of this ministry, and thank you especially for your prayers. For those of our partners, friends and supporters who may be struggling with the recent disclosures and finding continued support of this ministry in conflict with either conscience or conviction, we release and bless you with all our hearts and trust that God will redeem in your hearts the good that He has accomplished in your lives through this ministry. It is our sincerest hope and prayer that the Lord bless you and bring you into your fullest destiny in Him. </p>
<p>When this ministry was initially birthed in May of 1998, Todd had but one simple desire in his heart &#8211; to see the world come to know Jesus. Now, only 10 years later, Fresh Fire Ministries has grown to become a Resource Center that is literally reaching out to all the corners of the Earth. There have been dozens of associate ministries, scores of interns and hundreds of graduates from the Supernatural Training Center. Over 60 nations have received a combined total of more than five million dollars in humanitarian aid and we have seen well over one million conversions for Jesus Christ. </p>
<p>And so, the question can well be asked&#8230; where do we go from here? It is true that we are deeply saddened by these recent events, but it hasn&#8217;t shaken our faith in either God or His goodness towards us and with the help of wise and compassionate leaders within the body, we will do everything within our power to see our brother and sister healed and restored. </p>
<p>As a ministry, we can not forsake the vision and heartbeat upon which Todd Bentley founded Fresh Fire Ministries which is simply this: </p>
<ul>Matthew 10:7-8   <br />And as you go, Preach, saying, &#8220;The kingdom of heaven is at hand&#8221; Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out demons. Freely you have received, freely give. </ul>
<p>While Todd and Shonnah each go through the necessary steps towards restoration and wholeness, we are compelled, with the resources with which God has entrusted us, to continue to spread God&#8217;s love and power all over the world. </p>
<p>There are many noble activities and endeavors in which Fresh Fire Ministries is involved, initiated by Todd, and to which we are still committed. We have the Supernatural Training Centre, our school of ministry, already in it&#8217;s fourth full year and with more than 50 students already enrolled we&#8217;re believing for an amazing year of biblical instruction, practical application and encounters with the presence of God. Many mature and gifted speakers and associates, graduated interns and teachers filled brim-full with the DNA and fire of this ministry are ready to pour revelation and passion into the hungry hearts of this coming year&#8217;s student body. </p>
<p>We will continue to host conferences in our region with speakers and worship leaders from around the nation whose message and mandates resonate with the vision and heart of Fresh Fire Ministries. In addition, we are committed to supporting the growing &#8220;OutPourings&#8221; across North America and around the world with our Associates, with encouragement and prayer support. In Todd&#8217;s own words, &#8220;What God is doing is bigger than one man&#8221;, and we now have a golden opportunity as the Body of Christ to pick up the baton and to run with perseverance for His glory. </p>
<p>Our missions department is progressing, as previously mentioned, with our major African crusade. With close to 100 team members in attendance, excitement is beginning to build and team members have responded that they are still believing God for the most amazing missions trip ever! Our Uganda Jesus Village in Kampala is forging ahead with the recent acquisition of 35 acres of land 30 minutes drive from our present location. Two of the 15 homes planned for the property are nearing completion, and the expanded village, when finished, will house almost 150 orphans rescued from war torn northern Uganda. </p>
<p>So whether in our Children&#8217;s Home in Africa, in our Supernatural Training Centre in British Columbia, in the revival meetings and outpourings spreading around the globe, or in taking teams to minister compassion and practical assistance to the poor in the far corners of the Earth, we have been and still are committed to bringing love, hope and a demonstration of the saving, healing, delivering power of the Gospel to a world in need. </p>
<p>Thank you all once again for your prayers and support. We bless each and every one of you in whatever decision you must make. Please know that our heart in all of this is to see the name of the Lord vindicated, and we take great encouragement from Psalm 23 and the Lord&#8217;s promise that He will &#8220;lead us in paths of righteousness for His name&#8217;s sake.&#8221; Together we look to the mercy and wisdom of our loving Father and we remain as ever, your brothers and sisters in Christ. </p>
<p>The Fresh Fire Board of Directors </p>
<p><a href="http://www.freshfire.ca/printpage_content.php?id=1065"><em>- Print Version of August 15th Letter -</em></a></p>
<hr />August 12, 2008</p>
<p>Greetings Partners and Friends, </p>
<p>The last four months have been some of the most amazing months in the history of Fresh Fire Ministries. We have witnessed God pour out His Spirit in an unprecedented way in Florida and around the world in the first revival in history to be broadcasted live into literally millions of homes and churches across all five continents and into more than 200 countries. The &#8220;Outpourings&#8221; as they have come to be called are continuing now in many cities worldwide. These fiery hot coals of revival are sweeping through the Body of Christ, crossing geographical, political and denominational boundaries as the Holy Spirit brings the manifest presence of the glory of God back to His church with tangible demonstrations of his saving, healing, delivering power. </p>
<p>As a result, we as a ministry have experienced the blessing and the burden of exponential increases of activity and interest in our activities, functions and resources. Our website during the last few months has received as many as 6 million hits in one month and our office has struggled to cope with numberless phone calls and emails which have taxed our infrastructure and human resources almost to the breaking point. We so appreciate the patience and grace many of you have extended to us during this time, whether waiting for us to answer the phone or process your donation or product order. To overcome this challenge, we have hired more than a dozen new staff in our home base here in Abbotsford in addition to the many staff temporarily hired to help with the administration of the Outpouring in Lakeland, Florida. </p>
<p>The Lord&#8217;s blessings and abundance have been so evident on the ministry during this season of intense activity and we rejoice in seeing and being able to participate in what we believe is only the beginning of a worldwide awakening. It is with considerable sadness then, that we must temper the jubilation we know you all feel with the sobering news that Todd and Shonnah Bentley are presently experiencing significant friction in their relationship and are currently separated. We want to affirm that there has been no sexual immorality on the part of either Todd or Shonnah, nor has there ever been. Undoubtedly the pressures and the burden of the Outpouring, which approaches 144 days on August 23rd, have helped to create an atmosphere of fatigue and stress that has exacerbated existing issues in their relationship. We wish to stress however, that the Outpouring is not &#8220;to blame&#8221; for the current chain of events and that in effect we have no interest in blaming anyone, but rather we deeply covet your prayers for Todd and Shonnah and for Fresh Fire Ministries during this time. </p>
<p>We know that many of you will have questions, for most of which we presently have no answers. We cannot see far down the path ahead of us, but we have quiet confidence in the One who sees the end from the beginning and promises to provide grace and strength for whatever lies ahead. We are hopeful that the outcome will include restoration, but we can make neither promise nor guarantee. We intend to take each day as it comes and look intently for the new mercies promised us each morning. We will watch and pray and ask each of you to do the same, knowing that you will pray as you are led by the Holy Spirit. </p>
<p>In the meantime, we encourage you to continue to participate in current Outpourings, whether the Florida Outpouring or one in your area and region, &#8230;or to become one if there are none nearby. As a ministry, we continue to encourage and facilitate these growing Global Outpourings, providing Fresh Fire Associate ministries, resources, and input wherever needed.</p>
<p>We are still fully committed to our crusade in Uganda, Africa later this month, and though Todd will not be in attendance, our Fresh Fire Team and Associate Ministries will lead a team of almost one hundred people from around the world to share the love of God, the power of the gospel, and humanitarian aid with the people of Uganda. While there, we will also connect with the Uganda Jesus Village, the Fresh Fire Children&#8217;s Home where we shelter and provide for over 60 orphans rescued from war and poverty only a few years ago. We&#8217;re excited about seeing the recently purchased 35-acre property that will contain both a school and homes for the children and their &#8220;mamas.&#8221; As we step inside the first home (being completed as we arrive) we will be stepping towards our dream of not only protecting and nurturing hundreds of orphans, but raising them up to become full-fledged ambassadors of Christ to the nation of Africa and beyond. </p>
<p>With all of this in mind, we ask each of you to continue to pray with us, both for Todd and Shonnah and for this ministry, as we continue to bring the saving, healing, and delivering power of God to a dry and thirsty world, desperate for an encounter with the endless love of the living God. </p>
<p>We thank you again for your many prayers and support and we truly believe the promise of the Lord that He will indeed work all things together for our good.   <br />With our sincerest blessings and gratitude, </p>
<p>The Fresh Fire Ministries Board of Directors </p>
<p><a href="http://www.freshfire.ca/printpage_content.php?id=1064"><em>- Print Version of Aug 12 Letter-</em></a></p>
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		<series:name><![CDATA[lakeland]]></series:name>
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		<title>Lakeland Revival</title>
		<link>http://rupertward.cce.uk.net/2008/08/01/lakeland-revival/</link>
		<comments>http://rupertward.cce.uk.net/2008/08/01/lakeland-revival/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Aug 2008 09:22:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>rupert</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Charismatic]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Church]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Humour]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Links]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[lakeland]]></category>

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		<description><![CDATA[Whatever you think of the current &#34;revival&#34; in Lakeland (Florida), this is a very humorous post by &#34;Mister David&#34; from our church.&#160; It made me laugh! Technorati Tags: Lakeland,Revival,Todd Bentley]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Whatever you think of the current &quot;<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lakeland_revival" target="_blank">revival</a>&quot; in Lakeland (Florida), this is <a href="http://misterdavid.typepad.com/these_are_the_days_of_mir/2008/07/the-lakeland-revival.html" target="_blank">a very humorous post</a> by &quot;Mister David&quot; from our church.&#160; </p>
<p>It made me laugh!</p>
<div class="wlWriterSmartContent" id="scid:0767317B-992E-4b12-91E0-4F059A8CECA8:a433d20a-aad9-49c7-87b9-121af165657c" style="padding-right: 0px; display: inline; padding-left: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; margin: 0px; padding-top: 0px">Technorati Tags: <a href="http://technorati.com/tags/Lakeland" rel="tag">Lakeland</a>,<a href="http://technorati.com/tags/Revival" rel="tag">Revival</a>,<a href="http://technorati.com/tags/Todd%20Bentley" rel="tag">Todd Bentley</a></div>
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