Comments on: Todd Bentley, Lakeland, meetings and marriage http://rupertward.cce.uk.net/2008/08/19/todd-bentley-lakeland-meetings-and-marriage/ Random wonderings about God and Life Tue, 06 Jan 2009 09:47:10 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6.2 By: Lakeland and Toronto - Part 2 http://rupertward.cce.uk.net/2008/08/19/todd-bentley-lakeland-meetings-and-marriage/#comment-12787 Lakeland and Toronto - Part 2 Fri, 19 Sep 2008 09:59:01 +0000 http://rupertward.cce.uk.net/?p=342#comment-12787 [...] on to some of the good things, and to avoid  in the future some of mistakes that have caused such a mess in the recent weeks.  My first post will give more context.  So here we [...] [...] on to some of the good things, and to avoid  in the future some of mistakes that have caused such a mess in the recent weeks.  My first post will give more context.  So here we [...]

]]> By: Lakeland and Toronto http://rupertward.cce.uk.net/2008/08/19/todd-bentley-lakeland-meetings-and-marriage/#comment-12161 Lakeland and Toronto Mon, 15 Sep 2008 23:55:35 +0000 http://rupertward.cce.uk.net/?p=342#comment-12161 [...] few weeks after the sad news of Todd Bentley marital problems, I have been wanting to write some reflections on Lakeland, and compare some of the differences [...] [...] few weeks after the sad news of Todd Bentley marital problems, I have been wanting to write some reflections on Lakeland, and compare some of the differences [...]

]]> By: rupert http://rupertward.cce.uk.net/2008/08/19/todd-bentley-lakeland-meetings-and-marriage/#comment-11884 rupert Sat, 13 Sep 2008 09:56:01 +0000 http://rupertward.cce.uk.net/?p=342#comment-11884 <img src="http://rupertward.cce.uk.net/wp-content/uploads/2008/08/france-07-6-134.JPG" alt="Rupert" WIDTH=60 HEIGHT=75 HSPACE=15 VSPACE=10 ALIGN=RIGHT /> <FONT color=blue> Tim - you may well be right about wanting in the next big thing. I can't quite understand why it was done publicly?! If they had concerns, but wanted to help, it would have been much better to have agreed something behind the scenes and issued a joint statement. I think Lakeland deserves some reflection on what we can learn from this. I think i am going to write some posts on it... </FONT> Rupert
Tim - you may well be right about wanting in the next big thing. I can’t quite understand why it was done publicly?! If they had concerns, but wanted to help, it would have been much better to have agreed something behind the scenes and issued a joint statement.

I think Lakeland deserves some reflection on what we can learn from this. I think i am going to write some posts on it…

]]> By: Tim Sokell http://rupertward.cce.uk.net/2008/08/19/todd-bentley-lakeland-meetings-and-marriage/#comment-11880 Tim Sokell Sat, 13 Sep 2008 09:29:36 +0000 http://rupertward.cce.uk.net/?p=342#comment-11880 Hi Rupert.... I agree with you about Peter Wagner's motivations over concerns, and about the style/language. But bottom line... did those guys see something 'big' taking place and needed to be in on it? Despite the motivations it just confirms to me the bubble that can so easily be created by those in 'ministry'. Yes... interesting about responses too. I would have been likewise some years ago. These days I find myself more relaxed over most things, but a bit more discerning and decidedly itchy when it comes to things such as this! Hi Rupert…. I agree with you about Peter Wagner’s motivations over concerns, and about the style/language. But bottom line… did those guys see something ‘big’ taking place and needed to be in on it? Despite the motivations it just confirms to me the bubble that can so easily be created by those in ‘ministry’.

Yes… interesting about responses too. I would have been likewise some years ago. These days I find myself more relaxed over most things, but a bit more discerning and decidedly itchy when it comes to things such as this!

]]> By: rupert http://rupertward.cce.uk.net/2008/08/19/todd-bentley-lakeland-meetings-and-marriage/#comment-11878 rupert Fri, 12 Sep 2008 23:21:31 +0000 http://rupertward.cce.uk.net/?p=342#comment-11878 <img src="http://rupertward.cce.uk.net/wp-content/uploads/2008/08/france-07-6-134.JPG" alt="Rupert" WIDTH=60 HEIGHT=75 HSPACE=15 VSPACE=10 ALIGN=RIGHT /> <FONT color=blue> Good comment Tim. Thanks for adding that. I really agree that that GodTV have a lot to answer for. I think where people have so positively endorsed, that some acknowledgment of their part in would be helpful. I don't think it will happen though. I do wonder about Peter Wagner's involvement. I didn't like the style / language or think the public way it was done was that wise. But it does seem as though he had his concerns and was trying to bring Todd into some place of "accountability". I think it would have been much better to have been done very differently, but I think there was a good motive behind it. I have found it interesting to reflect on how i would have responded a few years ago, which would have been much less discerning! </FONT> Rupert
Good comment Tim. Thanks for adding that.
I really agree that that GodTV have a lot to answer for. I think where people have so positively endorsed, that some acknowledgment of their part in would be helpful. I don’t think it will happen though.

I do wonder about Peter Wagner’s involvement. I didn’t like the style / language or think the public way it was done was that wise. But it does seem as though he had his concerns and was trying to bring Todd into some place of “accountability”. I think it would have been much better to have been done very differently, but I think there was a good motive behind it.

I have found it interesting to reflect on how i would have responded a few years ago, which would have been much less discerning!

]]> By: Tim Sokell http://rupertward.cce.uk.net/2008/08/19/todd-bentley-lakeland-meetings-and-marriage/#comment-11877 Tim Sokell Wed, 10 Sep 2008 17:28:34 +0000 http://rupertward.cce.uk.net/?p=342#comment-11877 Rupert- bit late catching up with you on this post. I really feel for Todd and his wife in all this. My (quite major) problem has been with those who put him on the pedestal, including those who broadcast it live and built up the hype, and then, when it all hit the fan, gave us the sop that "...we need to pray for Todd now", (before reverting to their more lucrative schedules?) The other thing which I found almost laughable, was the live broadcast of the nonsensical 'Apostolic Alignment'. For me this encapsulated much of what is adrift in the charismatic church. Actually, I didn't know whether to laugh or cry, and it seriously made me think about my own journey of faith and how I position myself with those who endorse and engage in this kind of twaddle! Sorry.... I came very close to judging there didn't I! Rupert- bit late catching up with you on this post. I really feel for Todd and his wife in all this. My (quite major) problem has been with those who put him on the pedestal, including those who broadcast it live and built up the hype, and then, when it all hit the fan, gave us the sop that “…we need to pray for Todd now”, (before reverting to their more lucrative schedules?)

The other thing which I found almost laughable, was the live broadcast of the nonsensical ‘Apostolic Alignment’. For me this encapsulated much of what is adrift in the charismatic church. Actually, I didn’t know whether to laugh or cry, and it seriously made me think about my own journey of faith and how I position myself with those who endorse and engage in this kind of twaddle!

Sorry…. I came very close to judging there didn’t I!

]]> By: Random readings: electronic connections « What’s your point caller? http://rupertward.cce.uk.net/2008/08/19/todd-bentley-lakeland-meetings-and-marriage/#comment-11864 Random readings: electronic connections « What’s your point caller? Mon, 01 Sep 2008 19:39:58 +0000 http://rupertward.cce.uk.net/?p=342#comment-11864 [...] (my phrase) to be quicker than ever, obviously in reference to Todd Bentley (btw Rupert had a thoughtful post on this recently). I think there’s a lot of truth in Jason’s [...] [...] (my phrase) to be quicker than ever, obviously in reference to Todd Bentley (btw Rupert had a thoughtful post on this recently). I think there’s a lot of truth in Jason’s [...]

]]> By: rupert http://rupertward.cce.uk.net/2008/08/19/todd-bentley-lakeland-meetings-and-marriage/#comment-11856 rupert Tue, 26 Aug 2008 22:40:30 +0000 http://rupertward.cce.uk.net/?p=342#comment-11856 <img src="http://rupertward.cce.uk.net/wp-content/uploads/2008/08/france-07-6-134.JPG" alt="Rupert" WIDTH=60 HEIGHT=75 HSPACE=15 VSPACE=10 ALIGN=RIGHT /> <FONT color=blue> Paul - great to hear from you. I read Jason's evaluation of lakeland at the time, and found it helpful. I really agree about not judging. Been wondering about writing something on lessons we could learn, but don't want to get into all the debate about TB's split, not be critical. But i do think there is stuff to learn ... wondering how to do that in a Godly way... </FONT> Rupert
Paul - great to hear from you. I read Jason’s evaluation of lakeland at the time, and found it helpful.
I really agree about not judging. Been wondering about writing something on lessons we could learn, but don’t want to get into all the debate about TB’s split, not be critical. But i do think there is stuff to learn … wondering how to do that in a Godly way…

]]> By: Paul http://rupertward.cce.uk.net/2008/08/19/todd-bentley-lakeland-meetings-and-marriage/#comment-11855 Paul Mon, 25 Aug 2008 21:02:19 +0000 http://rupertward.cce.uk.net/?p=342#comment-11855 Jason Clark wrote a good critique of the whole thang a while back... Hmm all i'll say is that we get judged for our reaction and therefore i'm with you on the not throwing stones! Jason Clark wrote a good critique of the whole thang a while back…

Hmm all i’ll say is that we get judged for our reaction and therefore i’m with you on the not throwing stones!

]]> By: rupert http://rupertward.cce.uk.net/2008/08/19/todd-bentley-lakeland-meetings-and-marriage/#comment-11847 rupert Thu, 21 Aug 2008 19:02:16 +0000 http://rupertward.cce.uk.net/?p=342#comment-11847 <img src="http://rupertward.cce.uk.net/wp-content/uploads/2008/08/france-07-6-134.JPG" alt="Rupert" WIDTH=60 HEIGHT=75 HSPACE=15 VSPACE=10 ALIGN=RIGHT /> <FONT color=blue> HTML worked fine! </FONT> Rupert
HTML worked fine!

]]> By: rupert http://rupertward.cce.uk.net/2008/08/19/todd-bentley-lakeland-meetings-and-marriage/#comment-11846 rupert Thu, 21 Aug 2008 19:00:56 +0000 http://rupertward.cce.uk.net/?p=342#comment-11846 <img src="http://rupertward.cce.uk.net/wp-content/uploads/2008/08/france-07-6-134.JPG" alt="Rupert" WIDTH=60 HEIGHT=75 HSPACE=15 VSPACE=10 ALIGN=RIGHT /> <FONT color=blue> Good points david and in many ways i agree. Unfortunately i feel i have been "forced" to consider lakeland and all the goings on there, partly because of my role as a leader within the church. i tried to avoid taking a position on it, but i guess even sitting on the fence is a position too... sometimes rather uncomfortable! In the end, i felt lakeland was a red herring. i was probably misunderstood by some for saying that, but i have no desire for a meeting focused church. we need to keep the focus on being missional, integrating any works of the Holy Spirit into our desire to be really good news the city we live in. </FONT> Rupert
Good points david and in many ways i agree. Unfortunately i feel i have been “forced” to consider lakeland and all the goings on there, partly because of my role as a leader within the church. i tried to avoid taking a position on it, but i guess even sitting on the fence is a position too… sometimes rather uncomfortable!

In the end, i felt lakeland was a red herring. i was probably misunderstood by some for saying that, but i have no desire for a meeting focused church. we need to keep the focus on being missional, integrating any works of the Holy Spirit into our desire to be really good news the city we live in.

]]> By: MisterDavid http://rupertward.cce.uk.net/2008/08/19/todd-bentley-lakeland-meetings-and-marriage/#comment-11845 MisterDavid Wed, 20 Aug 2008 19:14:34 +0000 http://rupertward.cce.uk.net/?p=342#comment-11845 (with apologies for poor html skills ...) (with apologies for poor html skills …)

]]> By: MisterDavid http://rupertward.cce.uk.net/2008/08/19/todd-bentley-lakeland-meetings-and-marriage/#comment-11844 MisterDavid Wed, 20 Aug 2008 19:11:13 +0000 http://rupertward.cce.uk.net/?p=342#comment-11844 Hi Rupes, When you were talking on Sunday - rivers etc. - the thing that came to mind straight away for me was 'you don't build houses in rivers'. It sounds to me that that's what GodTV have effectively been doing - turning a splash into a stage; a bit like Peter's 'Let's build three booths and stay here!' mentality. Well maybe. I mean, I've intentionally not read a whole bunch about Lakeland or concentrated on it, mainly because, to me, the whole point of 'signs' is to point you <i>somewhere else<i>, you know? It's not helpful for me to get over-focused on some stage in some meeting somewhere, let alone for the poor guy with the mic. Anyway, I think that's my two penn'orth ... Hi Rupes,

When you were talking on Sunday - rivers etc. - the thing that came to mind straight away for me was ‘you don’t build houses in rivers’. It sounds to me that that’s what GodTV have effectively been doing - turning a splash into a stage; a bit like Peter’s ‘Let’s build three booths and stay here!’ mentality. Well maybe.

I mean, I’ve intentionally not read a whole bunch about Lakeland or concentrated on it, mainly because, to me, the whole point of ’signs’ is to point you somewhere else, you know? It’s not helpful for me to get over-focused on some stage in some meeting somewhere, let alone for the poor guy with the mic.

Anyway, I think that’s my two penn’orth …

]]> By: Gentle Wisdom » Message from Trevor Baker about Todd Bentley http://rupertward.cce.uk.net/2008/08/19/todd-bentley-lakeland-meetings-and-marriage/#comment-11843 Gentle Wisdom » Message from Trevor Baker about Todd Bentley Tue, 19 Aug 2008 20:53:28 +0000 http://rupertward.cce.uk.net/?p=342#comment-11843 [...] Rupert Ward has posted some very perceptive comments about Todd and Shonnah: They are the victims in this.  Willing, co-conspiring victims maybe.  But [...] [...] Rupert Ward has posted some very perceptive comments about Todd and Shonnah: They are the victims in this.  Willing, co-conspiring victims maybe.  But [...]

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