Comments on: Mission and Development - Part 1 http://rupertward.cce.uk.net/2007/05/13/mission-and-development-part-1/ Random wonderings about God and Life Fri, 05 Dec 2008 11:30:44 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6.2 By: Rupert’s Blog » Mission and Development - Part 4 http://rupertward.cce.uk.net/2007/05/13/mission-and-development-part-1/#comment-11937 Rupert’s Blog » Mission and Development - Part 4 Sat, 13 Sep 2008 14:08:05 +0000 http://rupertward.cce.uk.net/2007/05/13/mission-and-development-part-1/#comment-11937 [...] on to part 4 of mission and development (also see part 1, 2, and 3). We are looking for good biblical (theological) reasons why social justice or [...] [...] on to part 4 of mission and development (also see part 1, 2, and 3). We are looking for good biblical (theological) reasons why social justice or [...]

]]> By: Rupert’s Blog » Mission and Development - Part 9 & 10 http://rupertward.cce.uk.net/2007/05/13/mission-and-development-part-1/#comment-1436 Rupert’s Blog » Mission and Development - Part 9 & 10 Mon, 09 Jul 2007 08:46:38 +0000 http://rupertward.cce.uk.net/2007/05/13/mission-and-development-part-1/#comment-1436 [...] Posts: Part 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, and [...] [...] Posts: Part 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, and [...]

]]> By: Rupert’s Blog » Mission and Development - Part 8 http://rupertward.cce.uk.net/2007/05/13/mission-and-development-part-1/#comment-1384 Rupert’s Blog » Mission and Development - Part 8 Sun, 01 Jul 2007 23:40:51 +0000 http://rupertward.cce.uk.net/2007/05/13/mission-and-development-part-1/#comment-1384 [...] Here are the other posts 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, and [...] [...] Here are the other posts 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, and [...]

]]> By: Rupert’s Blog » Mission and Development - Part 7 http://rupertward.cce.uk.net/2007/05/13/mission-and-development-part-1/#comment-1338 Rupert’s Blog » Mission and Development - Part 7 Mon, 25 Jun 2007 20:43:53 +0000 http://rupertward.cce.uk.net/2007/05/13/mission-and-development-part-1/#comment-1338 [...] posts: Mission and Development - Part 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, and [...] [...] posts: Mission and Development - Part 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, and [...]

]]> By: Rupert’s Blog » Mission and Development - Part 6 http://rupertward.cce.uk.net/2007/05/13/mission-and-development-part-1/#comment-1314 Rupert’s Blog » Mission and Development - Part 6 Mon, 18 Jun 2007 22:39:34 +0000 http://rupertward.cce.uk.net/2007/05/13/mission-and-development-part-1/#comment-1314 [...] have given a bit of explanation to this series in post 1 and also in post 5. We have looked at Jesus inaugurating the Kingdom (part 3), which could be [...] [...] have given a bit of explanation to this series in post 1 and also in post 5. We have looked at Jesus inaugurating the Kingdom (part 3), which could be [...]

]]> By: Rupert’s Blog » Mission and Development - Part 5 http://rupertward.cce.uk.net/2007/05/13/mission-and-development-part-1/#comment-1288 Rupert’s Blog » Mission and Development - Part 5 Mon, 11 Jun 2007 22:26:10 +0000 http://rupertward.cce.uk.net/2007/05/13/mission-and-development-part-1/#comment-1288 [...] have looked at the consistent way that God acts in the world according to his nature (part 1), this action could be described at Shalom (part 2) which is incarnate in Jesus (part 3) but still [...] [...] have looked at the consistent way that God acts in the world according to his nature (part 1), this action could be described at Shalom (part 2) which is incarnate in Jesus (part 3) but still [...]

]]> By: Rupert’s Blog » Mission and Development - part 3 http://rupertward.cce.uk.net/2007/05/13/mission-and-development-part-1/#comment-1192 Rupert’s Blog » Mission and Development - part 3 Sun, 27 May 2007 19:37:29 +0000 http://rupertward.cce.uk.net/2007/05/13/mission-and-development-part-1/#comment-1192 [...] have looked the nature of God activity being consistent with who He is (Part 1) and (in Part 2) how God is at work in the world to bring Shalom (”peace with [...] [...] have looked the nature of God activity being consistent with who He is (Part 1) and (in Part 2) how God is at work in the world to bring Shalom (”peace with [...]

]]> By: rupert http://rupertward.cce.uk.net/2007/05/13/mission-and-development-part-1/#comment-1133 rupert Fri, 18 May 2007 14:12:02 +0000 http://rupertward.cce.uk.net/2007/05/13/mission-and-development-part-1/#comment-1133 <img src="http://www.cce.uk.net/ims/Rupert.jpg" alt="Rupert" WIDTH=60 HEIGHT=75 HSPACE=15 VSPACE=10 ALIGN=RIGHT /> <FONT color=blue> Yes ... good point alastair ... i think there is somethign that God acts towards us as he sees Christ when he looks at us (we have been clothed with Christ). As for you other question, i think that will need to wait for another day... :wink: </FONT> Rupert
Yes … good point alastair … i think there is somethign that God acts towards us as he sees Christ when he looks at us (we have been clothed with Christ).

As for you other question, i think that will need to wait for another day… :wink:

]]> By: Alastair http://rupertward.cce.uk.net/2007/05/13/mission-and-development-part-1/#comment-1112 Alastair Thu, 17 May 2007 08:47:22 +0000 http://rupertward.cce.uk.net/2007/05/13/mission-and-development-part-1/#comment-1112 <em>I do believe that God loves all people passionately. But i wonder if there is something that God feels more deeply for those in Christ, his firstborn?</em> Isn't this something to do with the fact that those in Christ are well, in him? And that the Father is in the Son, and ... you know ... we are caught up within the Trinity. We are loved from within the Trinity, as opposed to those outside of Christ, who are loved in some way externally...that is...they are not caught up in the love relationship between Father, Son and Spirit...they are loved, but in a way which is not reciprocated by them. Do you know what I mean? Here's a tricky one: (assuming you believe in some form of Hell) does God love those who will end up in hell? (I don't expect any quick answers!). I suppose Calvinists might say that God only truly loves the elect? Any Calvinists around to correct me here? I do believe that God loves all people passionately. But i wonder if there is something that God feels more deeply for those in Christ, his firstborn?

Isn’t this something to do with the fact that those in Christ are well, in him? And that the Father is in the Son, and … you know … we are caught up within the Trinity. We are loved from within the Trinity, as opposed to those outside of Christ, who are loved in some way externally…that is…they are not caught up in the love relationship between Father, Son and Spirit…they are loved, but in a way which is not reciprocated by them. Do you know what I mean?

Here’s a tricky one: (assuming you believe in some form of Hell) does God love those who will end up in hell? (I don’t expect any quick answers!). I suppose Calvinists might say that God only truly loves the elect? Any Calvinists around to correct me here?

]]> By: rupert http://rupertward.cce.uk.net/2007/05/13/mission-and-development-part-1/#comment-1105 rupert Wed, 16 May 2007 22:24:54 +0000 http://rupertward.cce.uk.net/2007/05/13/mission-and-development-part-1/#comment-1105 <img src="http://www.cce.uk.net/ims/Rupert.jpg" alt="Rupert" WIDTH=60 HEIGHT=75 HSPACE=15 VSPACE=10 ALIGN=RIGHT /> <FONT color=blue> woow! Good points Tayna and Alastair. Thought provoking stuff ... OK ... here's a thought that expands a bit on Alastairs stuff: I have two wee boys. I love them both dearly, equally, passionately. I don't have a favourite, but they do delight me in different ways. Caspar is so adventurous (despite being only 18 months!). Toby is articulate, full of life, loves people (he's 3 and a bit). BUT Toby will always be my first born - and as such he has a special place in my heart. I don't love him more than Caspar, but i suppose it different in some ways. I find it really hard to describe, but i wonder if that is similar to how God loves. I do believe that God loves all people passionately. But i wonder if there is something that God feels more deeply for those in Christ, his firstborn? As to the verse that you mention Tayna, it is a challenge. I think i interpret that as those who love God will be obedient. I think that our love for God motivates us to do what God wants. It isn't so God will love us more, but in repsonse to God's love for us, and our love for God. </FONT> Rupert
woow! Good points Tayna and Alastair. Thought provoking stuff …

OK … here’s a thought that expands a bit on Alastairs stuff:

I have two wee boys. I love them both dearly, equally, passionately. I don’t have a favourite, but they do delight me in different ways. Caspar is so adventurous (despite being only 18 months!). Toby is articulate, full of life, loves people (he’s 3 and a bit). BUT Toby will always be my first born - and as such he has a special place in my heart. I don’t love him more than Caspar, but i suppose it different in some ways. I find it really hard to describe, but i wonder if that is similar to how God loves.

I do believe that God loves all people passionately. But i wonder if there is something that God feels more deeply for those in Christ, his firstborn?

As to the verse that you mention Tayna, it is a challenge. I think i interpret that as those who love God will be obedient. I think that our love for God motivates us to do what God wants. It isn’t so God will love us more, but in repsonse to God’s love for us, and our love for God.

]]> By: Alastair http://rupertward.cce.uk.net/2007/05/13/mission-and-development-part-1/#comment-1098 Alastair Wed, 16 May 2007 16:11:17 +0000 http://rupertward.cce.uk.net/2007/05/13/mission-and-development-part-1/#comment-1098 Tanya, you've raised a good question here, and one I was wanting to comment on. It seems to me that there are different types of love, and that the way God loves his people is different from the way God loves the world in general. 1) We know that God loves the world, because John 3:16 tells us so 2) However the general gist of the entire bible is that God is wanting to draw a people to himself, who will be special in some way, the apple of his eye, his "first born", and that through them his redeeming love for the world will be manifest. The bible tells us that Israel was that people, but that as a nation they failed to live out that role. Jesus, the perfect Israelite, came as the Last Adam to live the life that Adam and Israel couldn't live. He was loved by God in every possible meaning of the word. By nature of being united with Christ, Christians are included in this special love, which is revealed to them by the Holy Spirit. Now the point of this special, faithful, covenant love is not that we are in some way better than non-Christians (perish the thought!), but that we have been chosen, like Abraham was, to bless the nations and glorify God. We are to be a "kingdom of Priests", and to work with God in redeeming the world. That's the implication of our special love that we have in Christ. What do folks think? I'm sure there are other aspects of being included in God's covenant love (in Hebrew, <em>hesed</em>), but the above is a good starting point. Tanya, you’ve raised a good question here, and one I was wanting to comment on. It seems to me that there are different types of love, and that the way God loves his people is different from the way God loves the world in general.

1) We know that God loves the world, because John 3:16 tells us so

2) However the general gist of the entire bible is that God is wanting to draw a people to himself, who will be special in some way, the apple of his eye, his “first born”, and that through them his redeeming love for the world will be manifest. The bible tells us that Israel was that people, but that as a nation they failed to live out that role. Jesus, the perfect Israelite, came as the Last Adam to live the life that Adam and Israel couldn’t live. He was loved by God in every possible meaning of the word. By nature of being united with Christ, Christians are included in this special love, which is revealed to them by the Holy Spirit.

Now the point of this special, faithful, covenant love is not that we are in some way better than non-Christians (perish the thought!), but that we have been chosen, like Abraham was, to bless the nations and glorify God. We are to be a “kingdom of Priests”, and to work with God in redeeming the world. That’s the implication of our special love that we have in Christ.

What do folks think? I’m sure there are other aspects of being included in God’s covenant love (in Hebrew, hesed), but the above is a good starting point.

]]> By: Tanya Heasley http://rupertward.cce.uk.net/2007/05/13/mission-and-development-part-1/#comment-1096 Tanya Heasley Tue, 15 May 2007 16:58:14 +0000 http://rupertward.cce.uk.net/2007/05/13/mission-and-development-part-1/#comment-1096 Hya Rupert, I totally get agree with what you're saying. In my mind God loves us all equally, even non-Christians, but what He says in John 14:21 leads me to believe that He has a greater love for those who obey and love Jesus (Christians). What do you think? Hya Rupert, I totally get agree with what you’re saying.

In my mind God loves us all equally, even non-Christians, but what He says in John 14:21 leads me to believe that He has a greater love for those who obey and love Jesus (Christians). What do you think?

]]> By: rupert http://rupertward.cce.uk.net/2007/05/13/mission-and-development-part-1/#comment-1095 rupert Tue, 15 May 2007 12:46:25 +0000 http://rupertward.cce.uk.net/2007/05/13/mission-and-development-part-1/#comment-1095 <img src="http://www.cce.uk.net/ims/Rupert.jpg" alt="Rupert" WIDTH=60 HEIGHT=75 HSPACE=15 VSPACE=10 ALIGN=RIGHT /> <FONT color=blue> Thanks Tayna. What a great and comforting though that God is consistent when i am inconsistent! If I can push back a little: it seems as though you are saying your obedience means that God will love you more? I don't see it that way: i don't think there is anything that we can do (good or bad) that causes God to love us any more or less. I can never love my children any more than i do ... even when they are good or naughty. I think obedience springs from God's love for us ... because God loves me, i want to do what he wants ... Or have i misunderstood what you were saying? </FONT> Rupert
Thanks Tayna. What a great and comforting though that God is consistent when i am inconsistent!

If I can push back a little: it seems as though you are saying your obedience means that God will love you more? I don’t see it that way: i don’t think there is anything that we can do (good or bad) that causes God to love us any more or less. I can never love my children any more than i do … even when they are good or naughty. I think obedience springs from God’s love for us … because God loves me, i want to do what he wants …
Or have i misunderstood what you were saying?

]]> By: rupert http://rupertward.cce.uk.net/2007/05/13/mission-and-development-part-1/#comment-1094 rupert Tue, 15 May 2007 12:37:43 +0000 http://rupertward.cce.uk.net/2007/05/13/mission-and-development-part-1/#comment-1094 <img src="http://www.cce.uk.net/ims/Rupert.jpg" alt="Rupert" WIDTH=60 HEIGHT=75 HSPACE=15 VSPACE=10 ALIGN=RIGHT /> <FONT color=blue>Hi Mairi, Thanks for visiting my blog, and comment. I hope this won't be the first and last! Great comment too ... i absolutely agree that is about maturity. i think our view of who God is, is absolutely vital. One of the things i have been thinking about, along the lines of consistency which you speak about, is do i think God will treat me differently from other people? For me i might think God is kinder to me than i expect him to be towards others. I realise that for others that might be the other way round (God is harder on them, than on others). What do you think? What i love about the above, is that if God is LOVE, then i would expect him to act according to that LOVE in every situation. of course love may demand that he get angry, or act in justice, or be kind ... etc. But behind all God's actions is LOVE. I love that thought! </FONT> Rupert Hi Mairi,
Thanks for visiting my blog, and comment. I hope this won’t be the first and last!
Great comment too … i absolutely agree that is about maturity. i think our view of who God is, is absolutely vital.

One of the things i have been thinking about, along the lines of consistency which you speak about, is do i think God will treat me differently from other people? For me i might think God is kinder to me than i expect him to be towards others. I realise that for others that might be the other way round (God is harder on them, than on others). What do you think?

What i love about the above, is that if God is LOVE, then i would expect him to act according to that LOVE in every situation. of course love may demand that he get angry, or act in justice, or be kind … etc. But behind all God’s actions is LOVE. I love that thought!

]]> By: Tanya Heasley http://rupertward.cce.uk.net/2007/05/13/mission-and-development-part-1/#comment-1090 Tanya Heasley Tue, 15 May 2007 09:29:24 +0000 http://rupertward.cce.uk.net/2007/05/13/mission-and-development-part-1/#comment-1090 God Is love, John 3:16. :razz: Despite my thoughts, actions and behaviour God's love for me is constant, however because of my inconsistency towards Him I tend to do things my way or if I pray for something and nothing happens, instead of waiting for God to act I take the prayer back and I try to resolve it. My inconsistency towards God prevents me from realising His purpose for me. :???: God has spoken to me lately about obedience. I know that my inconsistency with Him is really disobedience. I truely love Jesus but I felt God tell me I could express it more. Through His word He shows my disobedience, 'Those who accept my commandments and obey them are the ones who love me. And because they love me, my Father will love them. And I will love them and reveal myself to each of them'. John 14:21 I've stopped trying to understand God and I no longer try to put Him in a box. I'm learning to trust Him more and my obedience and love for Jesus gives God the reason to love me even more than the love He already had for me in the beginning. God Is love, John 3:16. :razz:

Despite my thoughts, actions and behaviour God’s love for me is constant, however because of my inconsistency towards Him I tend to do things my way or if I pray for something and nothing happens, instead of waiting for God to act I take the prayer back and I try to resolve it. My inconsistency towards God prevents me from realising His purpose for me. :???:

God has spoken to me lately about obedience. I know that my inconsistency with Him is really disobedience. I truely love Jesus but I felt God tell me I could express it more. Through His word He shows my disobedience, ‘Those who accept my commandments and obey them are the ones who love me. And because they love me, my Father will love them. And I will love them and reveal myself to each of them’. John 14:21

I’ve stopped trying to understand God and I no longer try to put Him in a box. I’m learning to trust Him more and my obedience and love for Jesus gives God the reason to love me even more than the love He already had for me in the beginning.

]]> By: Mairi http://rupertward.cce.uk.net/2007/05/13/mission-and-development-part-1/#comment-1089 Mairi Tue, 15 May 2007 08:32:55 +0000 http://rupertward.cce.uk.net/2007/05/13/mission-and-development-part-1/#comment-1089 Hi Rupert, just 'discovering' your blog for the first time...you can thank Facebook! i think this point is really fascinating, i think that has to be correct, God cannot be untrue to himself. God is constantly working in me (and everyone i'm sure) changing my small view of him, into a bigger view. for example i have great confidence in God's faithfulness, whereas half a year ago i don't think i could have said that with quite so much confidence. I guess that is maturing. i think i don't yet have the awareness to comment on 'God in the world' part. I do think, however that my view of God is often inconsistent with who he actually is, but that God is in fact the consistency in it all. if that makes sense!! Hi Rupert, just ‘discovering’ your blog for the first time…you can thank Facebook! i think this point is really fascinating, i think that has to be correct, God cannot be untrue to himself. God is constantly working in me (and everyone i’m sure) changing my small view of him, into a bigger view. for example i have great confidence in God’s faithfulness, whereas half a year ago i don’t think i could have said that with quite so much confidence. I guess that is maturing. i think i don’t yet have the awareness to comment on ‘God in the world’ part. I do think, however that my view of God is often inconsistent with who he actually is, but that God is in fact the consistency in it all. if that makes sense!!

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