Comments on: Different Types of Loneliness http://rupertward.cce.uk.net/2007/03/05/different-types-of-loneliness/ Random wonderings about God and Life Tue, 06 Jan 2009 10:57:57 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6.2 By: Beyond the 4 walls » Loneliness http://rupertward.cce.uk.net/2007/03/05/different-types-of-loneliness/#comment-908 Beyond the 4 walls » Loneliness Fri, 20 Apr 2007 21:05:17 +0000 http://rupertward.cce.uk.net/2007/03/05/different-types-of-loneliness/#comment-908 <!--%kramer-ref-pre%-->[...] hey lyn - thanks for the link. i have actually now moved blog so you can find it here [...]<!--%kramer-ref-post%--> Kramer auto Pingback[...] hey lyn - thanks for the link. i have actually now moved blog so you can find it here [...]

]]> By: Rupert Ward http://rupertward.cce.uk.net/2007/03/05/different-types-of-loneliness/#comment-705 Rupert Ward Fri, 09 Mar 2007 18:32:50 +0000 http://rupertward.cce.uk.net/2007/03/05/different-types-of-loneliness/#comment-705 Andrew - thanks for clarifying and Alastair, i too agree that we need to see thro a NT lens.<br/><br/>There does seem so many tensions that we have to hold, and our desire to understand and simplify can so easily lead us down paths that really aren't that consistent the NT, or that Christian. The false division between body and spirit that you are highlight andrew is one of them, but so spirit = good, flesh bad that Alastair brings.<br/><br/>Getting back to loneliness, i still think there is something that deep down we long for: a time of no pain, tears, suffering ... that wonderful picture of Revelation. And i long for that.<br/><br/>GOod point Paul ... i feel that too :-) Andrew - thanks for clarifying and Alastair, i too agree that we need to see thro a NT lens.

There does seem so many tensions that we have to hold, and our desire to understand and simplify can so easily lead us down paths that really aren’t that consistent the NT, or that Christian. The false division between body and spirit that you are highlight andrew is one of them, but so spirit = good, flesh bad that Alastair brings.

Getting back to loneliness, i still think there is something that deep down we long for: a time of no pain, tears, suffering … that wonderful picture of Revelation. And i long for that.

GOod point Paul … i feel that too :-)

]]> By: paul http://rupertward.cce.uk.net/2007/03/05/different-types-of-loneliness/#comment-704 paul Fri, 09 Mar 2007 13:12:37 +0000 http://rupertward.cce.uk.net/2007/03/05/different-types-of-loneliness/#comment-704 I think the Q about to include experience/feeling is a powerful way of engaging people Rupert... well that's what i feel ;) I think the Q about to include experience/feeling is a powerful way of engaging people Rupert… well that’s what i feel ;)

]]> By: Alastair http://rupertward.cce.uk.net/2007/03/05/different-types-of-loneliness/#comment-703 Alastair Wed, 07 Mar 2007 15:44:35 +0000 http://rupertward.cce.uk.net/2007/03/05/different-types-of-loneliness/#comment-703 Also another proviso would be that the New Testament sees a tension between our <b>bodies</b> being made in God's image and as being suitable vessels for worship, and our <b>flesh</b> being a barrier and hindrance to true holiness and an unbroken relationship with God. For example Apostle Paul "rid me from this body of sin!". Wright points out in "For All The Saints" that the New Testament writers saw the body as the primary locus of sin, and therefore once those that had been saved/born again/made righteous died, they would become "spirits made perfect" (Hebrews). Also another proviso would be that the New Testament sees a tension between our bodies being made in God’s image and as being suitable vessels for worship, and our flesh being a barrier and hindrance to true holiness and an unbroken relationship with God. For example Apostle Paul “rid me from this body of sin!”. Wright points out in “For All The Saints” that the New Testament writers saw the body as the primary locus of sin, and therefore once those that had been saved/born again/made righteous died, they would become “spirits made perfect” (Hebrews).

]]> By: Alastair http://rupertward.cce.uk.net/2007/03/05/different-types-of-loneliness/#comment-702 Alastair Wed, 07 Mar 2007 15:28:13 +0000 http://rupertward.cce.uk.net/2007/03/05/different-types-of-loneliness/#comment-702 Andrew, I like what you say, but as long as you see the "journey" continuing through the Otherworld into the (re)new(ed) creation of Heaven and Earth. Otherwise we have departed from New Testament Christianity as we know it (Cf. The Ressurection of the Son of God / NT Wright). As Wright says, the Christian hope is for "life after life after death"! Andrew, I like what you say, but as long as you see the “journey” continuing through the Otherworld into the (re)new(ed) creation of Heaven and Earth. Otherwise we have departed from New Testament Christianity as we know it (Cf. The Ressurection of the Son of God / NT Wright). As Wright says, the Christian hope is for “life after life after death”!

]]> By: Andrew http://rupertward.cce.uk.net/2007/03/05/different-types-of-loneliness/#comment-701 Andrew Wed, 07 Mar 2007 08:47:41 +0000 http://rupertward.cce.uk.net/2007/03/05/different-types-of-loneliness/#comment-701 By nature religions I mean the pre christian religions of the native peoples - ie druidry and other forms of pagani religion/spirituality. I am attracted to the holistic approach to spirit and physicality, to respect for creation, to seeing God/divine/deity in creation and hence a huge responsibility towards creation. I love the mindset of being at home both in our bodies (as flesh is sacred) and in the earth, and of seeing the 'otherworld' as the next step in our journey, our personal 'evolution' and growth as spiritual/physical etc beings. By nature religions I mean the pre christian religions of the native peoples - ie druidry and other forms of pagani religion/spirituality. I am attracted to the holistic approach to spirit and physicality, to respect for creation, to seeing God/divine/deity in creation and hence a huge responsibility towards creation. I love the mindset of being at home both in our bodies (as flesh is sacred) and in the earth, and of seeing the ‘otherworld’ as the next step in our journey, our personal ‘evolution’ and growth as spiritual/physical etc beings.

]]> By: Rupert Ward http://rupertward.cce.uk.net/2007/03/05/different-types-of-loneliness/#comment-700 Rupert Ward Tue, 06 Mar 2007 23:10:00 +0000 http://rupertward.cce.uk.net/2007/03/05/different-types-of-loneliness/#comment-700 Paul ... i love that description of the deep longing to be with God. Thanks.<br/><br/>And i think you ask the $1M question! How do we encourage authentic community? I really agree it is a risk, but great when we do it.<br/><br/>One thing i have been thinking about for while is how to ask the right questions, to get us talking at a deeper level. Questions such "What do you think about this?" tend to keep the conversation at a more intellectual or rational level. But questions such as "tell me when you have experienced ..." begins to move the conversation to a deeper level. I am still experimenting with this ...<br/><br/>Anyone else got any experiences they would like to share???!?!??! Paul … i love that description of the deep longing to be with God. Thanks.

And i think you ask the $1M question! How do we encourage authentic community? I really agree it is a risk, but great when we do it.

One thing i have been thinking about for while is how to ask the right questions, to get us talking at a deeper level. Questions such “What do you think about this?” tend to keep the conversation at a more intellectual or rational level. But questions such as “tell me when you have experienced …” begins to move the conversation to a deeper level. I am still experimenting with this …

Anyone else got any experiences they would like to share???!?!??!

]]> By: Rupert Ward http://rupertward.cce.uk.net/2007/03/05/different-types-of-loneliness/#comment-699 Rupert Ward Tue, 06 Mar 2007 23:04:25 +0000 http://rupertward.cce.uk.net/2007/03/05/different-types-of-loneliness/#comment-699 Andrew - thanks for clarifying ... but i think you might now need to clarify what you mean by nature religions and what you are attracted to? And does that preclude the type of homesickness (otherwise called loneliness) that Paul so vividly describes in his comment? Andrew - thanks for clarifying … but i think you might now need to clarify what you mean by nature religions and what you are attracted to? And does that preclude the type of homesickness (otherwise called loneliness) that Paul so vividly describes in his comment?

]]> By: paul http://rupertward.cce.uk.net/2007/03/05/different-types-of-loneliness/#comment-698 paul Tue, 06 Mar 2007 15:30:34 +0000 http://rupertward.cce.uk.net/2007/03/05/different-types-of-loneliness/#comment-698 Good thoughts on authentic community - maybe slightly cynical but for me authentic community i think exists when we gamble that the pain of rejection i may feel is less than the pain of inner loneliness that i currently feel and then i discover that rather than being all alone i am actually loved, accepted and welcomed and in turn get to do the same for others...<br/><br/>what do folks think encourages being authentic in your community/ies? Good thoughts on authentic community - maybe slightly cynical but for me authentic community i think exists when we gamble that the pain of rejection i may feel is less than the pain of inner loneliness that i currently feel and then i discover that rather than being all alone i am actually loved, accepted and welcomed and in turn get to do the same for others…

what do folks think encourages being authentic in your community/ies?

]]> By: paul http://rupertward.cce.uk.net/2007/03/05/different-types-of-loneliness/#comment-697 paul Tue, 06 Mar 2007 15:26:22 +0000 http://rupertward.cce.uk.net/2007/03/05/different-types-of-loneliness/#comment-697 To add to the conversation - i think there is a dynamic tension between the kingdom now and the kingdom come - i certainly feel that tension, sometimes i just want to go home, to be with God, to experienec that full shalom - and i pray God i just want to be with you, i just want that completeness, that fullness, i am so tired of facing this life and not feeling you with me - which would then echo the point of loniliness, that we know that their is a richer, deeper, more vivid life thatwe get glimpses of in the here and now and continue to hunger/pine for...<br/><br/>which reminds me of psalm 73<br/><br/>24 You guide me with your counsel, <br/> and afterward you will take me into glory. <br/><br/> 25 Whom have I in heaven but you? <br/> And earth has nothing I desire besides you. <br/><br/> 26 My flesh and my heart may fail, <br/> but God is the strength of my heart <br/> and my portion forever. To add to the conversation - i think there is a dynamic tension between the kingdom now and the kingdom come - i certainly feel that tension, sometimes i just want to go home, to be with God, to experienec that full shalom - and i pray God i just want to be with you, i just want that completeness, that fullness, i am so tired of facing this life and not feeling you with me - which would then echo the point of loniliness, that we know that their is a richer, deeper, more vivid life thatwe get glimpses of in the here and now and continue to hunger/pine for…

which reminds me of psalm 73

24 You guide me with your counsel,
and afterward you will take me into glory.

25 Whom have I in heaven but you?
And earth has nothing I desire besides you.

26 My flesh and my heart may fail,
but God is the strength of my heart
and my portion forever.

]]> By: Andrew http://rupertward.cce.uk.net/2007/03/05/different-types-of-loneliness/#comment-696 Andrew Tue, 06 Mar 2007 08:23:45 +0000 http://rupertward.cce.uk.net/2007/03/05/different-types-of-loneliness/#comment-696 To clarify - of course I believe we are spiritual as well as emotional, etc beings. But I feel we should see our sprirtuality rooted in our physicality and hence rooted in the earth. That is why I feel the nature religions are so attractive. To clarify - of course I believe we are spiritual as well as emotional, etc beings. But I feel we should see our sprirtuality rooted in our physicality and hence rooted in the earth. That is why I feel the nature religions are so attractive.

]]> By: Rupert Ward http://rupertward.cce.uk.net/2007/03/05/different-types-of-loneliness/#comment-695 Rupert Ward Mon, 05 Mar 2007 23:03:56 +0000 http://rupertward.cce.uk.net/2007/03/05/different-types-of-loneliness/#comment-695 #3 - thanks for the comments alastair. I agree with you. But wondering too, if you see as aspect of eternal life starting in this present life?<br/><br/>I wonder if that helps hold together andrew's concerns and the eternal and spiritual perspectives? #3 - thanks for the comments alastair. I agree with you. But wondering too, if you see as aspect of eternal life starting in this present life?

I wonder if that helps hold together andrew’s concerns and the eternal and spiritual perspectives?

]]> By: Rupert Ward http://rupertward.cce.uk.net/2007/03/05/different-types-of-loneliness/#comment-694 Rupert Ward Mon, 05 Mar 2007 22:59:26 +0000 http://rupertward.cce.uk.net/2007/03/05/different-types-of-loneliness/#comment-694 #2 Paul - thanks for sharing your story, and for your increadibly honest and authentic post on your blog recently. Authentic community is very attractive. Does provoke the question: how are we doing in our christian community?<br/><br/>A few folk said they enjoyed it, which was encouraging. Hoping that we might get some feedback and discussion going here ... #2 Paul - thanks for sharing your story, and for your increadibly honest and authentic post on your blog recently. Authentic community is very attractive. Does provoke the question: how are we doing in our christian community?

A few folk said they enjoyed it, which was encouraging. Hoping that we might get some feedback and discussion going here …

]]> By: Rupert Ward http://rupertward.cce.uk.net/2007/03/05/different-types-of-loneliness/#comment-693 Rupert Ward Mon, 05 Mar 2007 22:54:24 +0000 http://rupertward.cce.uk.net/2007/03/05/different-types-of-loneliness/#comment-693 Thanks for the comments folks.<br/><br/>1. Andrew - i am certainly not advocating a mentality that we trash the earth, or that is a rehearsal. But i do agree with Alastair that we are spiritual, as well as physical, emotional, volitional, and rational.<br/><br/>It is at that spiritual part that i think no 3 exists. Yes we should be content in the hear and now. But if we can hear the longing of the spiritual part of us, i think we know hear the cry to return "home". For me it is the picture in revelation, where there is no darkness, pain, crying, sin. That place is what i long for, if i still myself enought to listen. Thanks for the comments folks.

1. Andrew - i am certainly not advocating a mentality that we trash the earth, or that is a rehearsal. But i do agree with Alastair that we are spiritual, as well as physical, emotional, volitional, and rational.

It is at that spiritual part that i think no 3 exists. Yes we should be content in the hear and now. But if we can hear the longing of the spiritual part of us, i think we know hear the cry to return “home”. For me it is the picture in revelation, where there is no darkness, pain, crying, sin. That place is what i long for, if i still myself enought to listen.

]]> By: Alastair http://rupertward.cce.uk.net/2007/03/05/different-types-of-loneliness/#comment-692 Alastair Mon, 05 Mar 2007 17:56:31 +0000 http://rupertward.cce.uk.net/2007/03/05/different-types-of-loneliness/#comment-692 Andrew, to clarify your statement, surely you meant to say "we are physical-emotional-mental-spiritual creatures in a physical and spiritual world" ?<br/><br/>I agree we need to make the most of this life, but like most other truths, this has to surely be held in tension with the promise of eternal life, which from other posts, we know is to be found realised ultimately on this very planet on which we currently live.<br/><br/>What's your interpretation of the Hebrews passage which is the source of this "aliens passing through" stuff ? Andrew, to clarify your statement, surely you meant to say “we are physical-emotional-mental-spiritual creatures in a physical and spiritual world” ?

I agree we need to make the most of this life, but like most other truths, this has to surely be held in tension with the promise of eternal life, which from other posts, we know is to be found realised ultimately on this very planet on which we currently live.

What’s your interpretation of the Hebrews passage which is the source of this “aliens passing through” stuff ?

]]> By: paul http://rupertward.cce.uk.net/2007/03/05/different-types-of-loneliness/#comment-691 paul Mon, 05 Mar 2007 17:54:45 +0000 http://rupertward.cce.uk.net/2007/03/05/different-types-of-loneliness/#comment-691 and it looks like it was a really well thought out talk too... how did folk react? and it looks like it was a really well thought out talk too… how did folk react?

]]> By: paul http://rupertward.cce.uk.net/2007/03/05/different-types-of-loneliness/#comment-690 paul Mon, 05 Mar 2007 17:53:43 +0000 http://rupertward.cce.uk.net/2007/03/05/different-types-of-loneliness/#comment-690 one of the most attractive things for me when i was considering the alternative sexuality of BDSM was the key desire of the people in it to live honest lives where they were known and fully known - it was an interesting dynamic given that i had been a christian for so long and never had this and yet here was a community of kinky people who prized this honesty and trust... <br/><br/>I didn't go for the BDSM in the end but i did start to discover that sort of extreme self revelation in a`christian context instead... :) one of the most attractive things for me when i was considering the alternative sexuality of BDSM was the key desire of the people in it to live honest lives where they were known and fully known - it was an interesting dynamic given that i had been a christian for so long and never had this and yet here was a community of kinky people who prized this honesty and trust…

I didn’t go for the BDSM in the end but i did start to discover that sort of extreme self revelation in a`christian context instead… :)

]]> By: Andrew http://rupertward.cce.uk.net/2007/03/05/different-types-of-loneliness/#comment-689 Andrew Mon, 05 Mar 2007 15:22:03 +0000 http://rupertward.cce.uk.net/2007/03/05/different-types-of-loneliness/#comment-689 At the risk of being controversila (moi?) I am not sure I buy No 3 - doesn't this knid of 'we are aliens here, just passing through' mentality feed into the attitude that causes us to treat the Earth, our home as badly as we do - (see last post!) Shouldn't we be learning to be content in all things and learn to get the most out of the here and now? (NOT advocating an eat drink and be merry cos tomorrow we die ideology - just that we are physical creatures in a physical plane and we need to make the most of this - life is not just a rehearsal for the ever after. Jesus took flesh as he considered life on earth to be real and valuable!)<br/><br/>Does that make sense? At the risk of being controversila (moi?) I am not sure I buy No 3 - doesn’t this knid of ‘we are aliens here, just passing through’ mentality feed into the attitude that causes us to treat the Earth, our home as badly as we do - (see last post!) Shouldn’t we be learning to be content in all things and learn to get the most out of the here and now? (NOT advocating an eat drink and be merry cos tomorrow we die ideology - just that we are physical creatures in a physical plane and we need to make the most of this - life is not just a rehearsal for the ever after. Jesus took flesh as he considered life on earth to be real and valuable!)

Does that make sense?

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