Preaching as Community?
21 02 2007
There has been a fascinating conversation that has been happening in the comments section on a previous post, Dancing in the Aisles. After a number of comments going back and forth about how the church should critique society for its attitude to sex, Paul Ede left the following comment:
“This really could make a fascinating sermon. Is this a post-modern way to write a sermon? Have an actual talk shaped by discussion on-line. Certainly there is a host of good things that Rupert could use here for a very engaging talk on the subject. Seriously, this is good stuff. Maybe monologue preaching can be “saved” by being created in dialogue like this…an alternative to introducing a dialogue format in a church where this might be less practicable because of the size of the congregation. Also, encodes idea of us all having the voice of the Lord. Preaching becomes a sort of oracle of what the community thinks the Lord is saying, mediated through the appointed leadership - bottom up rather than top-down sermons. Finally, its a lot less work for the preacher.”
Well said Paul. Not sure I agree about it being a lot less work (just look at the debate in the comments!), but I agree with the rest. It was one of my hopes from blogging … to engage in conversation, dialogue, to get other perspectives. And in the process, learn together.
I have a bit of a love / hate relationship with preaching. I love teaching. I love it when others get that “aha” moment, see something new, or find that the truth really does set them free. But so often I am frustrated about the context in which that happens. The real goal of preaching isn’t that we go away knowing more, but go away changed, Christ is a bit more formed inside us, we are shaped a little bit more like God. Knowledge isn’t bad, it is just the start of the learning process which brings about change.
Some people clearly have a gift for preaching or teaching. It is not only that they have good things to say, but they also have an ability to say them in a way that really communicates. So there is definitely a place for that in a church. But so often the work starts and finishes with them. I read, get ideas, study, try to get a sense of what it is God is wanting to do or say, and then take my finished piece to deliver on a Sunday morning. And that, generally, is where it stops. Often there isn’t much ongoing dialogue or feedback. I’ve done my bit, and now its for others to individually respond to God (or perhaps we might have a discussion in a small group in the middle of the week!).
Well I just don’t think that is good enough. Its not good for me and its not good for others. Its what Doug Pagitt calls it “speeching”, and it is pale reflection of Biblical Preaching. Learning is best done together. It isn’t an event, it is process. Its ongoing. And it happens in life. It happens in relationship with people.
So I guess my question is: how can we really help people learn and be changed?
Tags: Preaching, Doug Pagitt
Thanks for posting this Rupert. You and Paul have raised some good points. Here are some further thoughts:
- I think one of the problems is the way that church preaching is kind of tacked onto the end of the service, often in a way that prevents people properly responding, either in mind, heart, or spirit. Historically I believe preaching the word was done near the beginning of the service, giving an opportunity for people to respond throughout the remainder of the service. I understand that this format was/is used by Jews in Synagogue worship.
- I am inspired by the way preaching works in Mars Hill Seattle. There, its at the beginning of the service, after the opening hymn/song. The rest of the service is shaped as a response to the sermon, which is always challenging. In that way the preaching is integrated into the worship, allowing prayer, bread&wine and singing to be a response TO the word. I find this really works.
- I think there are other ways we can respond as well. Often after a preach I have a host of questions. Having a question and answer time after the talk would sometimes be a great idea.
- Other times I think its appropriate to move into “ministry” after a talk, especially if difficult personal issues have been raised.
I’ve read elsewhere that there is somewhat of a crisis occurring in Western Christianity when it comes to discipleship and accountability. I believe this is one context where we can grow together.
Finally, I have grown amazingly from simply listening to sermons online. Our own small group would be able to testify to the power of traditional preaching. However, one thing that we do is that we always discuss the preach afterwards. I find this really helps process the talk and as a group figure out what we believe. Often we finish in prayer, again, relating to the issues of the preach.
So, in summary, I think the main problem with monologue is the lack of appropriate context to introduce response and dialogue.
Alastair. Thanks for your comments. I think your summary is spot on, and is exactly the point that i am making in my post.
Good practical points too about how we get more engagemtment into preaching. I have tried questions once or twice … scary, but good stuff!
Thanks Rupert. Listening to sermons/talks online, I often find the Q/A bits to be the most interesting. I can understand, though, that this could be a scary time!
i think we don’t need more preaching or no preaching - just better preaching. If that involves Q&A, story, roadmaps, support, on-line/off-line dialogue, increased honesty/openeess and modelling the message then they can all add ot making preaching better…
I’m just wondering rupert but as a preacher what are your feedback loops like [besides your wife ;)]?
Paul … i very much agree. I think we need to find ways of varying what we do, and find ways of doing theology in community. Blogs are a good way of doing this!
Good question re feedback loops. They are there, but tend to be with maturer Christians. It is good for my learning and ongoing conversation. What it doesn’t always engage is younger christians.
Having said all, i have just been away with some of the students in the church for a weekend, and we did lots of hanging out & talking, having fun etc, but also some worship, prayer, and teaching / discussion. i led a session on guidance, and really enjoyed the interactive nature of the session and the ongoing conversations that continued during the weekend. This is moving towards something that i am desiring for preaching.
What happens in your church Paul?
Jason tends to ask Qs when he’s teaching, usually to work out how people feel/understand a certain topic and then goes on to teach. I think some home grps discuss what was taught on sunday.
We’ve also had a variety of interactive activities - from chucking balls of string around to show how people are connected to each other in church to writing down confessions for shredding or to be prayed over.
Thanks Paul … sounds good stuff. I think creativity is so important, especially for those who are more visual or tactile than auditory in the way they learn.
Rupert: for a better “feedback loop”, why not do the following:
1 - blog a summary of the preach
2 - have a link to the audio, notes, and overhead PP if available.
3 - allow folk to post comments and so feedback
4 - most importantly, advertise and plug the blog, encouraging folks to use it as a first place of response.
5 - read the blog and follow up on questions either within the blog, privately, or during the next public meeting if appropriate.
I would imagine less mature Christians would feel apprehensive about approaching a speaker to ask questions. The web would be a good place to encourage feedback.
Great idea Alastair. That is taking this blog one stage further than i have so far.
We need to do a bit of work on number 2 (we are looking in to posting mp3’s on our website) but otherwise we could start straight away.
Thanks for the suggestion.
Rupert and all…
Good stuff. As someone who has a gift in teaching/preaching, and my wife as well, I want to be very aware that it is not my gift that changes lives, but the Holy Spirit.
With that in mind, even Jesus didn’t just rely on his voice. He proclaimed and taught, but also conversed, asked questions, and used objects of the day to make a point (a fish, a coin, a lamb, etc).
We only remember 10% of what we hear after 30 days. But we remember 80% of what we particpate in and 90% of what we teach. (I think discussion is like 40%)
So what are ways in which a teacher can help others particpate and teach?
Three examples stand out in the very new history of Revolution.
1. We spent our teaching time a couple months ago where I spent about 10 minutes talking about the plight of the persecuted church. We spent the rest of the time praying and writting letters to those in prison, or to governments asking for their release. Our teaching time only goes 30 minutes anyway, so this one went longer and it was well worth it. We all now have a better understanding, clearer insight, and a bigger heart for our brothers and sisters around the world.
2. We have a prayer station every week to kick off the service and I forgot one morning. We were meeting in what is kind of like a dormatory basement so I ran upstairs found some games and I brought down some chess pieces. Everyone picked a piece and we played some music and prayed while examining our piece and meditated on how that piece relates or does no relate ot our identity in Christ. It wasn’t even the topic of the day, but we could have stopped then and learned a lot as everyone shared their insight.
3. Just this last Sunday we had a discussion on racial reconcilliation by a dear friend who also did more of a straight teaching the week before. The combination of the two weeks (teaching - very anointed) plus the discussion which spilled over into a lunch really made an impact on all of us. It went beyond a, “Yeah we should do something” to a “What can we do?” The teaching brought revelation of Gods heart, but the discussion and food (love the food thing) brought action.
Long post. Sorry.
David, thanks for the comments. I really agree with you. The percentages are really helpful - thanks.
I love the things you have done in revolution … do you ever post what you do as you gather together. I follow your blog, but sharing those kinds of ideas would be great … i am sure others would be interested. Thanks for inspiring me!